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DIY 360 clutch replacement

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by billwann, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    I finally decided to do the clutch in my 360 , it was snowing and i was bored so here we go . It came apart real nice , Alot like my 355 . We spent about 3 hours to get it to the point that we can remove the trans . Daniel Ill be needed some parts soon , Give you a call when i have my shopping list .
     
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  3. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,287
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    nice job....ladsjust saved your self 4-5k........... keep them pics rollin
     
  4. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,287
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    cover up them openings on intakes don't want aliens in there
     
  5. dsevo

    dsevo Formula Junior

    May 7, 2007
    693
    Flower Mound, TX
    Full Name:
    Dustin
    Looks like a standard transmission. Procedures would be the same for F1 too though, right? Clutch jobs are so straight forward on other cars, I don't know why a f-car would be any different. Maybe I'll give it a try when it comes time. Nice car, and pics btw.
     
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  7. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    #6 billwann, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    well the trans came off pretty easy , no big deal really . Its not the lightest thing ive ever lifted but its not that heave either .
    The throw out bearing has been leaking for a year now , its made a wonderful mess . The clutch is in pretty good shape but its going to be replaced anyhow . Does anyone know how to remove the throw out bearing form the trans , its looks like i need a 13mm crowsfoot wrench to get it off .
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  8. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    6,751
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray Johns
    nice job! Keep those photos coming. I'm going to be tackling this job myself here in the not too distant future I think :)

    Ray
     
  9. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    #8 Ricambi America, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another fantastically crappy throw-out bearing rears it's ugly head. Well, the good news is that the Hill bearing will be the last one you ever need!

    Bearing: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=263919
    Clutch: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=261179


    Sadly, I need to inform you that you're also due for a new ring-gear. Your pictures indicate an old 3-bolt gear, which have all been tossed into the dumpster, per FNA bulletins. Obviously, nobody has been into that clutch in a loooong time:

    Ring gear:
    186157: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=209382

    6x of these bolts:
    186196: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=209390

    6x of these washers:
    127494: http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=214620
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  10. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,503
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    Nice going! I'd recommend changing the seals on the bearing if your'e removing it, and stick a nice big wad of clean rag over that big opening on top of the gearbox, as well as covering the intake holes; i use latex gloves for this, they work great! Nice to see someone having the balls to do a job like this at home. You can do an F1 clutch change at home by swinging the box just far enough out of the car that you don't have to disturb the gearbox actuator or plumbing. The only line you need to disconect is the clutch feed. Doing it this way means no trip to the garage for re-setting the box, only the P.I.S needs setting.
     
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  12. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    #10 billwann, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    #11 Ricambi America, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    What is the date on your receipt?

    In my picture, see those three bolts? Los Gatos might have replaced it under Ferrari Recall Campaign #28, which was an upgrade of the 3-bolt style, which still sucked. In that upgrade, they went from a flat faced ring gear to the 'lumpy' ring gear with higher tensile strength bolts. (Shown in your picture). Date on that recall was October 2000. This a 27 page document. PM me if you want it.

    The next update was issued in January 2002. At that time, the ring gear changed again, but the high-tensile bolts remained. See attached document
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  14. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    Yep , your right . It was replaced under campaign 28 in January of 2001 . Win some you loss some .Why did they replace it with six bolts anyhow ?
     
  15. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    #13 Ricambi America, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Depends on who you ask.... if you ask Fchatters, it's a big conspiracy to rip off everyone who owns a Ferrari.

    But in reality, it's because the upgrade to stronger tensile screws and thicker faced mounting holes was simply not enough to prevent the ring gears from cracking off their mounting points.

    In the first update of the ring gear (see picture below), the proximity of the mounting hole to the edge of the ring gear was the issue.
    In the second update of the ring gear (see above PDF), they simply say "production improvement", but I suspect RG's were still cracking from the load and only being supported by three screws. 6 screws spreads the load further.

    p.s. Your RG only has three bolts. See the pic I highlighted above. You should have the new tensile bolts (3 of them anyhow), but for the incremental few bucks, I'd replace all 6 with fresh ones.
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  16. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    #14 cwwhk, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    21,379
    socal
    You have made it 8? years on the 3bolt RG. I bet you could hillbilly it for 75 bucks by taking the flywheel to a machine shop and drilling the RG and taping the FW in the area of the RG other 3 places that don't have a hole. If there are already holes in the FW then punching some new holes in the RG is even quicker and cheaper. Still you will not have the meat you want on the RG land area but will it make it another 5 years???? I am surprised the RG can blow up. It must have surprised ferrari engineers too since they did it with 3 holes in the first place. Do these blow up on start-up or from high RPM or what? If the latter then go with the new design. If the former well you have made it along way. Since you can pull the box by yourself it does not cost you anything to try drilling and maybe you can start the "360 cheapskates club" like we have in the 348 section.

    For you purists I'm sorry to infect your sub-forum.

    Also, you have more holding up your car than those cinderblocks on the wheels right?
     
  18. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 29, 2006
    17,766
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Ugly!
     
  19. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,349
    Alabama (was Mich.)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    This is a fantastic thread, Thank You BILLWANN for posting all the pictures and writing things up! This is great information! This will help alleviate some worries when I finally get my 360 some day.....knowing that I can do a clutch myself. Again....terrific thread!
     
  20. walkaway

    walkaway Rookie

    Nov 21, 2007
    40
    Full Name:
    walkaway
    well done chaps, that a mighty fine hole you've dug in the back of that.

    ferrari have a special tool to remove the bearing (its similar to a 13mm crows foot, but slightly slimmer to fit... and yes its crap) but what i occasionally do is cut/burn the long bolts and fit a socket on them coz they can sometimes be stubborn. i assume this is manual and if anyone with an f1 tries that they will also need to replace the clutch position sensor as the new studs are longer so the "release" of the bearing rests on the sensor and a few gear changes later it breaks, which lets the complete bearing start spinning.

    may i suggest a replacement flywheel why u are there? it looks a bit burnt. make sure u measure new clutch and flywheel which has recently been mentioned on another thread.

    good luck on the rebuild.
     
  21. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    I started working on the oil leak problem today . What was happing is the fitting between the oil cooler line and the air seperator was leaking and dripping oil all over the trans , what a mess . I tried many times top tighten the thread but no luck . The fitting is a real fine thread and looks like it should work well . I can either replace teh seperator and oil line or weld a new areoquip fitting on the seperator and the put one on the oil line , it looks to be a -10 0r -12 line . Something tells me the line and seperator would cost a ton of money for a new one .
     
  22. saleenfan

    saleenfan Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    589
    No Where
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    Nice job!
    Looks like its comming along quite well.

    Hows the bigg A S S fish tank coming?
     
  23. Stew

    Stew Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2006
    547
    Los Angeles
    Bill,

    You rule !

    The six bolt ring gear and new clutch parts will be superior to what was there. Keep those pics comming !

    Regards,


    Stew


    p.s. You need to come to the west coast for King Salmon fishing. Just got back from
    Tillamook Bay in Oregon
     
  24. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    324
    Bristol Wisconsin .
    Full Name:
    Bill Wann
    I just got of the phone with Danile for Ricambi and he gave me some prices on teh oil seperator and oil line , seperator is 1389 and the oil line which make no sense to me is 1731 , So i guess ill get the Tig welder out and weld me some new fitting on this thing . The fish tank is comming along nice , had it test filled for a few days . Iam so sick of working on that house thats why i tore apart the 360 .
     
  25. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
    1,647
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Ferrari-tech

    A 13mm crows foot will work for the lower bolt, but is a bit tight for the upper one. The Ferrari special tool is like a crows foot with the extension already on it. It cost about $400. and is crappy. Be very careful not to strip out the head of the bolt. Always replace the bolts.
     
  26. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    78,305
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Holy crap. What great engineering that is.
    This the first time Ferrari put a ring gear on a flywheel?
    And you guys still buy these cars?

    Sorry I just couldn't resist ;>)
     
  27. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,194
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    On the oil leak, I would put some prussian blue on the mating surfaces of the fittings, and then tighten the fittings up. Carefully remove the fittings and look at the contact pattern. If there is a high spot, you can use some fine valve grinding compound on the mating surfaces (do not get any on the threads), assemble the fitting and almost tighten it up. Then work the fitting around to get the compound to remove any high spots and mate the fittings together.

    Carefully clean everything and recheck with the prussian blue. It is rare that the fittings leak, usually the hose or seal rings are the culprit.
     

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