Do I Need Belt Service 512 BBi

That is a great price...if it can really be done for that. I would want to talk to a customer who had his Boxer engine rebuilt by that shop for that price first though...

 

I will point out one more thing in this debate: it is not just Ferrari who recommends you change belts every 5 years. For example, Lexus does as well. We just had the belts changed in my wife's RX-300 last year. In fact, I think a 5 year interval is pretty standard.

 

Having read a million of these threads, the thing that stuck with me is every situation is different. Here's a review of what I remember:

Regularly driven cars that don't sit are better for the belts than a car left for months on end, regardless of miles. Be sure no oil is on the belts. If you track the car or drive like you are Schumacher, you need more frequent changes than little old lady drivers (although not revving the engine out causes other problems). Tensioners fail more often than belts. Most failures come from overrun or sloppy gear changes when downshifing in anger, or at start up. Some guys doing the belt job make critical errors in technique that lead to premature failures so be sure YOUR guy has done it before. 3-4 belt changes in a 308=a new engine. 6 belt changes =a new 308. Do the math and decide accordingly.

Ken

 

Yes 5 years is pretty standard on a lot of cars but for example 200K is the interval on a Zetec ford. Like Ken said, the type of use the car gets determines the interval rather than blindly changing them at 5 years regardless of distance. Use Judgement, mine says 7 is fine, possibly 6 but 5 is overkill. Bet the lexus belt looked like new and was changed earlier than needed.

 

200k or what time interval? If the time interval is 200k or 5 years, the 200k part isn't much good for most people!

I think the mileage interval on the Lexus was 72,000 miles or something (maybe more).

In the case of Ferrari, I suppose it would be a legit complaint that they only recommend 30,000 miles when Lexus and everyone else recommends 70-100,000 miles. But they all have the same time interval. And, very, very few people will drive a Boxer 30,000 miles in 5 years, let alone 70,000!

 

I would have to look it up, just remember the 200K and thinking that is crazy. The thing with the ferrari belts is the square tooth design rather than the rounded design of today. They dont last as long but VW's for example have the same type of belt as the ferraris so why do they have a longer interval? People drive the snot out of these little golfs and so on and dont change belts every 30K. Use a 308 as an example, 2 VW 4 cylinders sharing a crank with 2 vw belts. Whats the difference? Cant use high rpm as an example because the BB's loaf along and have a low redline. I think its BS to have such a short interval. If you drove your boxer or 308 daily for 5 years I bet you could go 100K before a belt change.

 

When the tesstarossa came out in the U.S ferrari said 30k but euro cars were 15k. They wanted to offer long service intervals, justifiable in a 55mph world. 5 years or 15k was the policy for Boxers.

I did mine when I bought it in 93 they had never been done. Did them again 8 years later. Car did maybee 1500 mi per year, none of them loafing. The old belts looked new, even whn bent backwards to look into the teeth there were no cracks starting.

In the end it was the oil leaks, and tensioner noise, clapped out brakes etc that got me started on doing evrything over. Realisticaly after 8 years there are so many little things to soert out it just makes sense to do the belts.
That all being said, if you drive the car as intended, after 6 or so years you start to wonder. In then end I would go with 7 years assuming no other strange sounds.

The newer belts are much better than those of 20 years ago. A 360 with something like a 9000rpm redline are much harder ontheir belts.

 

My TR is currently in for the major - It has been about 6 years and 4,000 miles since the last one.

The belts looked absolutely brand new.

You could go another year or two & then have the service done.

 

1) But, looks can be deceiving. The belt could have bad teeth or the internal structure itself could be failing which would not be apparent from a visual inspection; 2) The tensioner bearing is more likely to fail than the belt anyway...and you're left with the same result...valves hitting pistons. The fact of Ferrari ownership is if you can not afford to have them serviced, you can not afford to own one. More and more people making well less than $100k a year are buying Ferraris now because a lot of them can be bought cheap. Then they discover they can not really afford to own it because the service and repairs are too high. ...I'm not trying to be elitist, but only warning those from falling in the trap of 'bitting off more than you can chew'...l

 

I would stick with your original belts they knew how to make belts that would last back then
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Many of us can easily write a $10,000 check, when it is justified. The problem is, many of us feel like Ferrari is holding us hostage BECAUSE we CAN afford it.

Could you imagine your plumber telling you you need to have him come in every other year to change all of the gaskets in your fixtures? He informs you that is you fail to excercise his recommended service you could come home to a flood someday and $50,000 worth of water damage. You would feel as though you were being extorted?

What we want are honest answers, something Ferrari North America seems unwilling to provide.

If Ferrari wanted to put this debate to an end they could either return to recommending the service intervals they had a decade ago, or, show solid documented proof from independent sources to back their current service schedule. With independents that use to work at authorized dealerships turning away business and telling you the dealers are screwing you, how can the debate be resolved otherwise?

 

This thread is sponsored by the Ferrari mechanics of America.......

 

Ferrari has already indicated in its owners manuals how many miles it recommends for a cam belt change. My former 348 Spider OM said 52,000 miles whereas my current BB512i indicates twenty something thousand miles as I recall. All of the dealerships are independant francises, except for one in California that belongs to Ferrari Spa. But just like with your own health, a lot of times it is better to be safe than sorry.

 

Call your authorized Ferrari dealer and tell them you own a 348 with original belt, 46,000 miles on it and ask if they think you are due for a major service or to wait another 6,000 miles.

You are describing the problem to a T, the book says 52,000 and they are saying 5 years or 15,000 miles maximum. Dealers are quoting belt changes at 28% of the milage your owner's manual suggests.

 

Jim, I think your point is not relevant. If anyone is driving their Boxers 30,000 miles in 5 years then you might be right. But all of this discussion of mileage is irrelevant, because no one drives their Boxer that much.

Has anyone on this board put 30,000 miles (not km!) on their Boxer in the last 5 years? Has anyone put 6,000 miles (not km!) on their Boxer in the last year?

My Boxer has just over 20,000 miles since new, in 1979! And it's not considered especially low mileage for a Boxer!

So for almost all of us, the only interval which matters is time. And if you are Lexus or Ferrari or most anyone else, the recommended time interval is 5 years.

I guess if you were AJ Foyt, putting 180,000 miles on your BB, then mileage is relevant. For the rest of us, it's not.

 

But, the 52,000 mile interval is based on the auto industry standard/average of driving a car 12,000 miles per year...which would be about 4.3 years for a 52,000 mile recommended cam belt change. So, it would appear the problem lies with Ferrari owners and not with Ferrari Spa or its dealers. To get the best value out of your Ferrari, you must drive it!

 

I had my first belt service on my Boxer a year ago, 22 years after the car was built. Since the car was never driven hard, and was always a garaged car in a heated and a/c space, I decided to take a look at the belts when they were removed. They looked brand new. If you intend to drive the car real hard, maybe. If not, i wouldnt worry about it. Just my 2 c worth.

 

22 years!! LOL, that kinda blows the "better change it at the 5 year mark or it will fly apart" suggestions. Thanks for a great example coachi as well as others like the TR.

 

So why then doesn't the owner's manual say every five years or 52,000 miles? The OMs seem to never mention "time", only miles. Ferrari knows these cars are not daily drivers and thus are exposed to much less use.

 

I agree, It' about how hard you drive.

 

My guess would be that Ferrari Spa never imaged that there were so many fools out there that would buy an expensive car and then not drive it...FYI, Ferraris were often used as daily drivers up until the market bubble of the late 1980s when the prices went through the roof making them too valuable to risk driving. Ask any of the old timers and they will tell you how 250s, 330s, 365s, 308s and even Boxers were driven like regular cars 'back in the day'. In fact, it is my understanding that that is still the case for most of the rest of the world ...

 

They DO mention times in the newer manuals!

As Frank said, they didn't bother in the old manuals because they figured people would actually drive the cars. My BB manual says to change the belts between 25,000 miles and not more than 37,000 miles. If you drove it 10,000 miles per year, that would be just over 3 years.

 

If I am still around then, I will do the same....it really depends on too many factors, mainly how you drive the car and where you store it. If someone had shown me the belts removed from my car and told me they were new, i wouldnt have doubted them.

Again, this is my personal experience. Since my boxer is an 1983 model, it should have had at least 4 belt changes by now...for all 6000 miles driven.

And I have heard that new belts are just as old as the ones you have in your car ( I may be wrong). I also have heard some people say that new belts snap more often when recently replaced because of some defect than some of the older ones. Anyhow, it is your car, do what you want with it. Good luck.