Do Vintage Fans Really Hate Modern Ferrari's?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rossocorsa1, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Rookie
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    Hate, no.

    I just feel modern cars have no soul. I feel more like I am piloting a ship than driving a car, I don't feel the feedback of the road the same way.

    It also doesn't help that the cars have gotten progressively bigger and heavier over the years. There used to be a great photo on this site with the V-8's lined up next to each other. Unbelievable how they have grown.

    I have had the great privilege of being a long term owner of three Ferraris, a Daytona, a 328 GTS, and a 550 Maranello. While I thought the 550 was beautiful I never really felt connected to the road, all of the walls felt too thick, like I was in a capsule. The 328 drove like a large go kart, even the Daytona which was considered large for its day had great feedback.

    I don't like all of the options offered on the newer cars. Cup holders, GPS, fancy stereos, the shields, carbon fiber. (Does the carbon fiber actually lighten anything or is it just cosmetic?) If the carbon actually lowers some weight than I am good with it, but my impression is it is all just cosmetic. These options and prices they charge for them have no place in a sports car. I wish they would just charge more for the cars if they had to and not offer them. If you really need a cup holder buy one and hang it off something.

    I like my luxury cars luxurious and my sports cars sporty. I don't like it when Rolls-Royce tries to compete on performance and speed.

    (In the late 80's I went to look at luxury sedans with my Aunt and Uncle, two Beverly Hills lawyers, and the first thing they did was start counting cup holders. I was disgusted.)

    I don't like that the F1 system offers a full auto mode. While most people say they like the F1 system because it is faster and is the latest tech I think most of these same people would have bought automatics if the choice were only Auto or Manual. JMHO

    I think a lot of the new Ferraris look great. Not the FF family and whatever it is called now.

    I think the higher horsepower is fantastic but they should offer the manual.

    I don't even like that they come with a 7 year warranty. Why shouldn't they suffer like owners of the past?

    So I don't hate the new Ferraris but at the end of the day, price for price, there is always another older one I would rather own. If you handed me any new one I would sell it and put the money towards an older one.

    The vintage cars are so much cooler, they were cooler when they were new. If you drove one new back in the day you gave up some creature comforts. Today anyone who can turn a key can comfortably drive a new one. In the past they weren't for everyone, today if Mom has the money she can drive one too, and not spill her Starbucks. These people should be relegated to Mercedes SL's.

    A Ferrari should never be practical, should never be forgiving. You want a woman with practical flats or high heels?

    Ferrari should keep the tech in the engine and suspension where it belongs but strip it out everywhere else. Cut the amenities and cut the weight. My 2 cents.
     
  2. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran
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    The answer is very easy for me. I make no mystery that I am French; I do not take any particular pride in this, but as such, perhaps my eyes and my taste have been accustomed to classical European architecture, fashion, etc…around me (or coaxed into appreciating it, depending on your views on education in taste, acquired taste, etc…but this is not the matter here) and to a certain sartorial elegance if you like.
    So please Mr Marchionne, stop drawing your cars to satisfy your Asian and middle-east customers, stop with sharp creases, swooping scoops and so on, making your cars look just like transformers. Hire back designers that can draw Ferraris anchored into the bold classical Italian heritage. Do not hesitate to sacrify some points of CX or SCx, and some extra mph to classical beauty; and make the car small and light. That’s all I ask, thank you.
    I’m the first one to acknowledge that Aston-Martin has used and abused of too many variations of the classical DB9 shape in the later years, but back in the days when that shape was still rather new, I saw a DB9 side-by-side with a Ferrari 599, and believe me, from a design point of view, I didn’t have a single second of doubt about which design was “right”, and which one was “wrong” (even if the DB9 is not the performer that the 599 is, but in its original shape, it was much more pleasing to the eye)

    Rgds
     
  3. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    +1

    I find recent Ferrari rather ugly, to be honest.
     
  4. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Hate? no.
    Respect? yes.
    Lust after? Never.
    Modern Ferraris are amazing machines. Capeable of performance well beyond anything useable on the street. And that's part of the problem. If you can't drive a car to, or near to, its limits it's just not as rewarding an experience.
    Most of my ferrari buddies own newer cars and without exception they're real car guys. They're just looking for something different in a car than I am.
     
  5. enio45

    enio45 Formula Junior
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    I like them both for what they are....i have 3 vintage ones and one newer one and enjoy owning all of them.
     
  6. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula Junior

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    I have two old-ish cars ('78 BB, '91TR). The fact is that if I were to want to spend a lot more money on a Ferrari (to drive and to enjoy) I would buy older ones than the ones I have, not newer ones.

    If I somehow found myself in the market for a new paddle shift Ferrari, it would probably be an Aventador. The new Ferraris are just fugly.
     
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  8. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Hate is too strong a word. But they don't possess the magic that the older cars do. Even comparing new to new- as a kid in the 80's, seeing a brand new Testarossa for the first time - low and wide with it's crazy intake grates and flying mirror was mind blowing. Seeing an 812? Looks just like a new Corvette to me. Boring.

    When you add in the older cars- 275's, 330's, 365's, even 308's...they're all prettier and more unique than what we have offered today. The one exception I'd make would be the 458 Italia coupe. If I had the extra money I'd buy one of those.
     
  9. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
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    I vastly prefer the older cars, but I quite like many of the new ones, too. I am 28, and I think the F12 (especially the tdf) will hold a place in my heart like no other Ferrari, for a long time, simply because it is the V12 GT that defined my young-adultness. It's got everything that most people who prefer older cars dislike about new cars, but I think it's a gorgeous design and a classic Ferrari for the ages. I think in about 10 years you'll hear people saying the same - especially about the tdf.

    They have different applications. i'm no race driver, so for me, as long as Ferrari make a front engined V12 GT car, I will love the brand.
     
  10. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Edit: just saw the new Portofino and so far I like it. Roof when up has a more fastback look to it than the California did, which I like a lot better. At first glance, way prettier than the 812.

    Edit: The name is stupid, though. Ferrari should stick to number names.
     
  11. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior
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    +1
     
  12. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I don't hate new Ferraris, which is really sad if you think about it. I have no feelings towards them at all.
     
  13. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    Somehow Ferrari's exotic character and special charm got lost along the way. Like others have said it's a lot about the styling and cars like the 246, 308, 275, 166 have not been equaled in today's cars. Much of the problem is the shear size of today's cars. Part of the beauty of a design comes from a car being small IMO. Ferrari always had beautiful sounding engines that when I heard on for the first time (348) was SO exotic like it was from another world. Don't get that in today's exhaust sounds. Not that either the style or the sound isn't good, just that it's not wonderful, mystical or other worldly the way they used to be. Certainly childhood memories and dreams have an influence, so, it makes sense that the same cars that I fell in love with when I saw them as a child or young man may not have left the same impressions on me if I'd of seen them as an older person for the first time. I guess in general it just seems the things that made Ferrari special are no longer special in the new cars. As if they've just blended into the field and because of this I have no feel for them.
     
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  15. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    Make a beautiful car at the old foundry and with panels banged out by hand and with an English wheel. Give it unassisted rack and pinion and no driver aids, a clutch and a gas pedal tied to a mechanical wire. Make it light with a gate shifter. Flat crank with a beautiful sounding exhaust. Smaller..much much smaller. 355 sized. :)
     
  16. SCantera

    SCantera Formula 3
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    How can anyone here "hate" a Ferrari? An old vintage guy like me still respects the engineering and passione that is built into each Ferrari. Now whether the vintage FChatter has enough interest in the new cars.... answers will vary. Personally I love the vintage cars. Still have a GTC that is my fav of my all-Italian mob. The 330 and me know each other very well. Treat her right and she will give you her all. The sounds, the perfumes, and the sense that you are really driving and feel connected from your seat to the pavement. It's a special experience.

    However......bring in a little practicality....as in accommodating a female.....and the Superamerica [or a 550] works well. Sounds great with a big V-12. Yes it is a big car. We both love taking it out top down or not. And I acquired a 599 [even bigger!!] to pour on the miles for long trips and venturing out anywhere anytime. Having 600 hp it's hard not to have fun!

    I am a V12 guy.....new or old. Although for V8s....only the 355 was the only one I really liked. No interest in the newer V8s. With a 458 I would probably be in jail. No fun under 100.
     
  17. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

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    Good thoughts.

     
  18. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie
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    I think time has a way of skewing things and making our views prejudiced, and the new Cal Spyder of today is just as attractive (or unattractive) as the new Cal Spyder was in 1962. Saying that the new cars are unattractive we suggest that the buyer of the new car is a tasteless show-off. While we idolize the men who bought new Ferraris in 1950’s and 60’s, these men were probably of the same lot.

    john
     
  19. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    The vintage Ferraris are raw maschines, some were brutish. After 300 miles of driving you need a nap and a shower! They were men-maschines.

    Today everybody can drive them....who has the money.

    But do we really want back the cars from the 60s/70s???

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  20. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 Formula Junior

    May 14, 2017
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    This is well said. I'm reminds me of a comment I read recently on one of the 458/488 threads. I had mentioned why I love owning my 488 GTB - aside from my love of the cars design and technology, it was being part of the amazing history, lineage and bloodline of the great Ferrari's of the past. One responded, proclaiming how he didn't really care about the cranky old men that only liked vintage cars. I laughed, thinking that one day that guy would be older, waxing romantically about the 488 and admonishing whatever the modern cars of the future will be.
     
  21. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I fully disagree. In mid-60's people with taste saw that they are starting to loose it. I know someone who in 1966 wanted himself an old-fashioned sports car with the classic beauty that was not there any more. He bought himself a 4-year-old Ferrari and held to it.

    I must fully agree. I sort of appreciate the 275 GTB, but nothing built after that comes even close what I'd expect a Ferrari to represent. I think it is a pity they were not able to keep the V8-line under the Dino brand where it belonged. That's where they finally lost it.
     
  22. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    In other words, he was talking about the 330GTC and 275GTB as not being classically beautiful. He probably bought a Lusso?

     
  23. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    I'm guessing a SWB ?
     
  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I'm a vintage fan and don't hate the new cars.
     
  25. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    #48 kare, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    My point is that in early 60's Ferrari "lost it" and never got it back.

    I think this happened because of Pininfarina had gained control over Ferrari designs (1953) and later (1960) took liberties out of Scaglietti who had imporoved Pininfarina's designs significantly. As a result Ferrari would either make or break under Pininfarina and while some designs were quite succesfull, others weren't and in 1970's it gets obvious: 308 is a mediocre design at best, it cannot stand at comparison to what other manufacturers were building at the time.

    For me this is a turning point; "the most exclusive cars in the world" are turning into a brand driven commodities. People buy them because they are red, have the correct badge and are recognized and envied by common people.

    For me exclusive cars should be something that common people don't even recognize. They've never seen one so they don't know what they are looking at. Take Michelangelo Antonioni's "La Notte" (The Night) as an example: the main character is driving a Lancia Flaminia Sport Zagato. I would expect that hardly anyone in the audience knows what that car really is, but it is obvious that the person is driving a VERY exclusive car. They could have used a Ferrari for the purpose as well.

    Today using a Ferrari in such a scene would be sending a TOTALLY different message. This is why I don't really appreciate the cars or connect to the people who drive them. This is where Ferrari failed - it is just a business.
     
  26. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran
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    I think you're wrong in your assumptions.
    It's not because Ferrari did fail (and that might be discussed: remember, for instance, Giorgetto Giugiaro quote about the 308 GTB: "it is simply perfect, the most beautiful car in the world") that almost anyone recognise a Ferrari today, it is because of the medias.
    When I was a kid living in rural France in the sixties, in my village my chances to EVER see a Ferrari in the flesh were simply zero. In the press, zero either (no papers about automobiles at home, my Dad wasn't interessed); at the french TV about zero either (we were not allowed to watch TV very often, and furthermore, there was a single channel...) ANY italian car was very exotic.
    I remember the first day I saw a "Countach" in the flesh, it was in 1977 or 1978, so I was 17 or 18, and I wouldn't have been more surprised or more impressed to see martians.
    Today, this is simply impossible because anyone knows what a Ferrari is. It has nothing to do with the designs, but everything to do with the medias: "exotics" are not exotic at all anymore, because you see these everywhere. So the aura of rarity and mystery is lost for ever.
    I don't see any distinct point of "failure" in the design in the mid-sixties either.

    Rgds
     
  27. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
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    #50 johngtc, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    I doubt that many, if any of the Vintage crowd really 'hate' newer Ferraris. they just have a preference for the more interesting cars from days of yore!

    My first experience of Ferraris in the wild was a Lusso and GTE parked in the same (!) London Street. I then saw a new 275 GTB/4 almost daily on my way to school, but Ferraris were still very rare. Even the specialist press could not get their hands on press cars and depended upon the odd generous owner lending them his pride and joy.

    Kare and John both make good points but several major changes have taken place in the last 40 years. Primarily, ever more restrictive legislation, the move to mass production with all its constraints and the emergence of 100% profit driven public companies.

    Sadly, hand made bodies with sweeping curves are unlikely to appear again beyond one-off design exercises and production per day is more important than improvisation and ad hoc design developments. It is no coincidence that many modern cars (of different makes) look much the same!
     

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