Do we need Vettel for two more years? | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Do we need Vettel for two more years?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Dilusha, Aug 3, 2018.

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  1. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    there is absolutely an element of luck to it. Hamilton got lucky at Mercedes for example. It's not like they were the best team and went out and got him. Everyone wanted in a Red Bull in 2012 and they had no interest in LH
     
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  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Hardly.

    And lets not forget the age difference. Ricci should be so much further in his career than he is right now. Stalling like DC, the eternal water carrier to his #1 driver.
     
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  3. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Hanging on to Riakkonen is based on Vettel and part of the contract. Its very common for number 1 drivers to now want the team divided with two ultra competitive drivers - Hamilton & Rosberg come to mind. it is not good and ends up being way more expensive. I think Leclerc is the right guy - but doubt he'll get the drive Ferrari need stability and focus on the car vs. new drivers.

    were Enzo alive and calling the shots - he'd keep Vettel for sure. he liked the quiet focused drivers - Hill, Trips, Moll, Lauda, etc... ones that were totally dedicated to racing and the team. once a driver got married or had an outside distraction Enzo got jealous and started to ramp up the pressure.
     
  4. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    It's pretty easy to look up.

    Daniel - 118, Max 105

    Last year, Daniel - 200, Max 168

    Ferrari has the weakest driver lineup of the big 3 teams. We have Mr. Mistake Vettel and an aged Kimi. Ricciardo would have been an upgrade to either
     
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  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The pure points don't' reflect the mechanical DNFs. More importantly there is the age difference: Max has the world ahead of him, Ricci mostly behind him.

    As for our team, yeah, agreed. Ricci would have been helpful in the short run but not more. We need fresh blood like Max or Leclerc.
     
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  6. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Max had 7 DNF's to Ricci's 6 for 2018. Grant Max a 1st podium win at any GP to even out the DNF'S, Ricci still comes out ahead.
     
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  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Hmm not so sure on that...

    Didn't Max have a lot of DNF's from very prominent positions...that Ric directly benefitted from moving up at least 1 place due to Max's retirement? A lot of them where from 2nd-3rd place...Baku would've resulted in a win he was that far ahead. Monaco cost him a podium after luck of the draw pitstop strategy (Red Bull themselves said whatever they did on that stop, 1 driver would be disappointed and they didn't know which one it would be, Max drew the short straw).

    Baku car died = 25 points + 7 to daniel extra because he shifted up a place. +32 to Ric
    Canada car died from 2nd = 18 points gone = 18 points gone. Ric inherited 3rd (instead of 4th), so if my math is correct he inherits +21 on that race, 53 points on just two races.

    Not taking anything away from Ricciardo. He had some bad luck as well on which Verstappen inherited some points back.

    Verstappen has been sloppy this year, certainly in the early part until Monaco. He seems to have upped his game (read: Sensibility in overtaking and certain risks) and it has paid off, so far. Ultimately I think he is the faster driver, just made some poor judgement calls where he's getting a lot of negative attention for.

    I know which one I'd rather go to the pub with though.
     
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  8. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sorry, 2017 not 2018. My bad.

    @Bas Jaski

    All I know for 2017, Max had 1 more dnf than Ricci.

    Have to play catchup for 2018.
     
  9. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    haha you always forgot that when discussing MSC and Rosberg if I recall :)
     
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  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I'm on about 2017 ;).

    2018 max has made too many mistakes. A few races ago, if it wasn't for his mistakes and the car not working, both he and Ricciardo would've been in the running for the title. Obviously as an outside chance as they quite simply lack the power and reliability to be serious contenders anyhow.
     
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  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    ;)
     
  12. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    2018

    Bahrain - not a great race for Max.
    China - tried to overtake Lewis and lost position. Then "tapped" Vettel and got slapped with a 10 grid spot penalty.
    Baku - Max crashed out in FP1 and both crash out during the race.
    Monaco - binned it in FP3 and crashed at the same spot in 2016. Goes from last place to P9 during the race.
    Hungary - dnf's during the race.

    Still catching up on dnf's for both for 2018.
     
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  13. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Agree 100%

    For example I think Kimi is still a good driver but his days of challenging for WDCs are over. Seb still has good speed but he has been mistake prone his entire career and it's never changed. Lewis is fast and doesn't make many mistakes but it's stupidly easy to get inside his head and he is mentally weak. FA is the most complete driver on the grid but I wonder about his 1 lap speed these days and he has question marks with teams. Has burned all bridges. Ricciardo is not as fast as Max over 1 lap but has incredible racecraft and overtaking abilities. Very solid driver who is hungry. I'd take him over Seb or Kimi all day. Max is on the edge of greatness. I think he's faster than Seb or Hamilton over 1 lap. If he had a car under him he would be very tough to beat. LeClerc is clearly immensely talented. I think he could step in and take it to Seb day 1...and he's only going to get better. It's also cool he was buddies with the Ferrari heir apparent Bianchi and now he can follow in Jules footsteps when he never had his chance...

    Just my take on all the drivers
     
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  14. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Vettel, radio in Mexico. Not what I would call 'quiet' lol :)
     
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  15. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    +1 on the 'take' here. My thoughts are quite in-line with your analysis.
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Like I said...Verstappen been sloppy this year and that cost him an (outside) change at the title.

    Same thing goes for Lewis in 2011...Lewis crashed into everything that moved (or stationary). Yet we're forever told that ''that didn't count'' and ''Lewis is the GOATest ever''.
     
  17. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    In the wet, on a straight, my Bentley gt speed would get out of the corner quicker and potentially, therefore, be four tenths faster over the straight than my 458, but through the corners with all the weight, the 458 even in the wet kills the Bentley, and the LAP difference would end up in favour of the 458. If you are going to call people out, better hone up on basic aerodynamics and driving performances across conditions. The ferrari is a long way from the best in the wet, the Mercedes has always been the better wet weather car.

    As for elton in red..... yuck, enzo would come back and slap the Nancy in the mouth before firing him, and the Tifosi would bury the dickhead as soon as he blamed his first mistake on the team. Mercedes might want to put up with ******** from the fourth best driver on the grid, ferrari don’t need too. People strive desperately to drive for ferrari even when they are not the dominant car..... people only want to be in the merc while it is the best car, when it reverts to also ran, no one will be clamouring to drive one, not even elton (as soon as the merc becomes a confirmed second best, he’ll be driving around begging to park it, just like when the McLaren lost its speed)

    For someone so new to the forum, you aren’t half trying to cause as much mayhem as possible, and rather than asking why the mods haven’t closed a perfectly fun thread, you might be careful they don’t close you
     
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  18. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Good analysis.
     
  19. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    I think Nico would expose Vettel for the average driver he is.
    Hamilton would love it if Nico came back to drive for the Scuderia next to Vettel. Vettel? Not so much....

    Your post, as always read like a fool wrote them... How you're not embarrassed is beyond comprehension.
     
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  20. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Reported again Don. You really need to stop being personal when you run out of things to make up
     
  21. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Thank you!
     
  22. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, this is quite the conundrum for me. Here we have the classic personal attack from ATBNM3, with the semi-classic responding attack fro daytona355.

    My suggestion? Put each other on ignore, or learn to play nicer.

    However, given the first insult was tossed by ATBNM3, I'm gonna toss a thread ban until after the next race at you for this one, and simply admonish daytona to just report and not respond next time..

    D
     
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  23. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

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    I’m curious how Schumacher beat Rosberg. I am a huge Schumi fan, but he definitely did not beat Rosberg on any kind of regular basis...quite the contrary:

    https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/schumacher-and-rosberg%E2%80%99s-head-to-head-record-at-mercedes/
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I won't go on Google to check and build up a case to support my opinion, but he seemed too me that Schumacher didn't drive very well during his come back.
    I may get a lot of stick for saying this, but he was just a shadow of himself at that point, and not the elecrifying Schumacher we were used to during his Ferrari period.
    Stats may prove me wrong, but I think Nico Rosberg got the better of him quite often; that's the impression I got.
    Maybe Schumacher should never have come back. His last few years tarnished his image, IMO.
     
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  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Couldn't agree more. His comeback was a bad idea.
     
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