Do you like a "winner takes all" economy?

Cry me a river !!! I said before, Joe six-pack thinks he is TOO GOOD to frame a house, dig a ditch, or drive a cab. I do not know about you but my last name ain't Running Bull so your comments about AMERICANS worked here and AMERICANS owned this, blah, blah blah is ridiculous. WE ARE ALL HERE AS A RESULT OF THE OPENESS of what's stated on the Statue of Liberty, in point of fact THAT is what made this country so vibrant and strong. That is why, as another poster said, is it not amazing how a country made up of a mixing pot of immigrants with only 220 years of history sits atop the world in every respect, while Europe, the Middle East and the Far East, with their much-heralded RICH history going back thousands of years, can't wipe their noses without our help and economic assistance !!!

AMERICAN (IS IT YOUR AMERICA TOO?) INGENUITY ALL THE WAY BROTHER

 

SPOT ON !!!

 

And BTW, I personally KNOW many successful Mexican entrepreneurs who came here as recently as 1999 and own multiple locations of their own retail establishments, drive Escalades, MB, BMW, etc. and own their own houses and many had to be smuggled in, because this is the LAND OF OPPORTUNITY !! So Joe Six-Pack, I say to you: carpe diem, seize your opportunity you fat lazy idiot !!!

Now, many of these people are in businesses that cater specifically to their own cultures, hispanic grocery stores, etc. but they pay taxes just like you and I do, and don't say they don't because they would not be obtaining loans to expand if they didn't, and SO WHAT. At the turn of the 20th century New York city was, as it is today, a bunch of little cities within a city, China Town, Little Italy, etc. That's what made America great.

 

Tifosi wrote:

"Individuals don't have the option of having one shop or a small service firm: they have to become the biggest game in town or they'll be eliminated by someone else on their way to becomming the biggest, and the 'town' is increasingly larger day by day, until soon each sector will be dominated by a single global player".

This statement I believe is correct in certain segments. I believe that in ten years there will be three airlines, two department store chains that have 90% of the retail business and two US banks. I could go on. In the rat race to obtain better pricing to the consumer, more and more jobs will be lost in the US. This scares the hell out of me. What the hell do young people have to look forward to when they get out of college?

The mom and pop business model is all but dead, but remember that Starbucks was a mom and pop. The founders were smart enough to deliver something that the public wanted. Mom and pop gas stations went to the way of lobbyist for the oil companies that came up with the idea that all gas tanks in the ground leaked and that the small owner would have to file a chapter 7 because they could not afford to replace the tank. Thus big oil bought out these small stations and made direct profit with the same leaking tanks!

I sold electronic components in the Silicon Valley until 2000. With the mass outsource of manufacturing to lesser expensive countries, the Silicon Valley is just about a Ghost Town. These same companies are farming out their IT, accounting and other positions to India.

I believe that people need to work smart and not hard. I did! I just landed a HUGE contrcat for my company's products from the largest manufacturer of RC cars, boats and planes in Japan (for distribution in Japan) while in Germany last week. Now here's a US company (me) that sold a bill of goods to a Japanese company when 99% of their products come out of China! Did I work hard? Hell no! I worked smart! I figured out a gameplan and executed it. Not bad for a guy with a high school education.

We all want our .99 cent Big Macks. As long as there is demand for 'cheaper', it will be delivered. Long after the taste is gone, only then we will all realize that it is consumer demand that has sent our country down the toilet. If there is a Toyota in your garage, you are part of the problem....So, do I like a 'winner take all' economy, hell yes I do. I prompts people to be as smart as they can.

 

One problem with "super-warehouse" stores is when ma and pa fold because WalMMart is offering free glade plug-in with a DVD purchase and everyone HAS to get in on the freebies other people are phased out as well. There are TONS of competent people making things which do not have a name for themselves yet and their only source of getting known is ma and pa give them a chance. Ole Sammy won't have anything to do with them. So with no ma and pa how do they get found out? How do the many innovations make it into the market place when there is no retailer to peddle them??
Infomercials you say? Possibly. Kill or be killed is motto of nature. I thought we were a civilization of civilized people. not savage crocs....Competition is good on many fronts. When it is the only thing it disolves the very creativity and individuality and just plain fun that makes this a good country to live in. Many live here for the opportunity. Many live here for a decent modest life. In order for an economy to survive money needs to be spent. The rich invest, the poor are broke....The middle class spend on consumer goods.....If they are phased out all the "big, competitve" companies will also fold becasue no one will buy there product becausee they cant! It's like the overseas jobs. Go ahead and move all the factories over seas or to Mexico to build the car cheaper. But when no one in the US has a job because of that, who will buy your cars? All the money saved by cheap labor will be burned up in lost sales...Government intervention is sometimes necassary as long as it's not too much. I think many Americans need a swift slap on the ass to "get going". Daddy US, Daddy Union, Daddy Scam, and Daddy frivalous lawsuit is not going to bail you out forever...If you want it.. EARN IT!!!

 

Until recently, thanks to the dot.com bubble, 70% of Americans, across the boards, in all socio-economic classes owned stocks and/or bonds in one form or another. Lesson: the middle class invest also.

 

Slim,

Your post has me a bit confused exactly to what you’re trying to ask. I think what you are questioning is the free market system we have here in the US and it’s impact on populace.

Basically you seem to be questioning our system of picking winners and losers and indicating that we are increasing the gap between the poor and the not-so-poor.

What you need to do is look at the alternatives and ask if their way of life and system is better. Basically we are at one end of the spectrum. You have three types of basic systems, ones run by single dictators or a very small group of dictators un-elected (Communism), ones run by a group of all knowing elitists who may or may not be elected (Socialism) and ones run by the free market (Capitalism). Of course there are varying degree of each and not all systems fit neatly into each category.

Unfortunately if you look at the other systems, you will see that while they may do better job of bridging the equality gap between rich and poor they have to take away many freedoms to do so.

If you want total equality, utopia as some call it, where everyone makes the same amount you end up with a system like Communism where indeed everyone made the same amount, EVERYONE WAS DIRT POOR!!!!!!!

Then there is a system like Socialism where again a government or small group of elite people try to smooth out the inequality and this works too. Everyone makes about the same money, BUT HALF ARE UNEMPLOYED.

Look at Europe, you can have a graduate degree in mechanical engineering and right now you might be lucky to get a job waiting tables.

The question you might ask is what’s the best alternative to our system and in terms of freedom and choice there is no alternative.

In referrence to your point about making money at the expense of everything that is no longer true. Companies are constantly putting money back into the community and trying to clean up the environment not because they care about those things, but because their customer's care about them and won't buy their products unless those firms support their views. Look at BP spending billions on alternative fuel.

As far as mom and dad not being home!

Sorry, but that has more to do with screwed up values than our system. Why are both parents working their asses off, so they car afford a bigger house, a nicer car, or such. They made the decision that those things (expensive cars, big house) are more important than spending time with their kids. That has nothing to do with globalization or out system.

Goods at Ma and Pa stores were not of higher quality or they would still be in business. Either people decided that cost was more important than quality or people decided that quality did in fact imporve from Walmart.

Over 100 years of economic results prove otherwise in terms or quality. Ma and Pa stores sold items at HIGHER PRICES and of much less QUALITY. Competition drives down prices and improves quality, basic Econ 101. Look at the strides US car companies have made in the past 15 years because of Japanese competition.

What you are referring to is called “Import Substitution” the idea that we will make our own goods to employ our people. Look at any South American economy and this idea is rampant. Look up comparative advantage in your econ book and understand that it makes no sense to support and completely inefficient steel industry in the US to support 20,000 jobs when the increased cost in manufacturing cars, planes, and boats and any other item that requires steel is a hundred times greater. In other words it makes no sense to society to keep those jobs at a cost of 1,000,000,000 when the cost to purchase these items is now 20,000,000,000 more. It’s a net loss to society of $19 billion dollars. It makes much more sense to buy out these jobs (retain or buy them out completely) and save the consumer over $19 billion.

If you US steel workers were completely shielded from competition your average economy car would cost 30-40% more than it does. How does that help a poor person in acquiring a car?

As for the income gap, you should focus more on the improvement in overall living standards in our country relating to the poor vs. the gap between their incomes.

There are plenty of countries that have closer gaps in income but haven’t raised the living standards of their people. In most third world countries people live on streets, or in boxes, or in a hut made of grass and straw. They have no access to clean water, much less hot water, they have no access to any health car because hospitals don’t exist, and lastly, because they don’t live in a free society they have no chance of ever changing their plight.

Most poor people (not all) in our country at least can get the most basic things for survival, food and shelter, but not so in much of the rest of the world.

The free market system is the best system to raise living standards both at home and abroad.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

Peters, I can't take the credit for that statement.

 

Yes, but history also shows they are usually the "spenders"
And so you don't nitpick my words so you can offer an argument I am using it incontext of this subject such as spenders as the main buyer of consumer products. You know, the kind you throw away. Depreciating kind. Eaten kind and generally emotional non-financially responsible kind.

 

Jon, extremely well said as always.

 

Amen Jon. And BTW, everyone seems to forget that at the turn of the century, Mom and Pop sundry stores in New York city were slowly but surely driven out of business by Gimballs, Macy's etc. This is no NEW PHENOMENON. Walmart did NOT invent survival of the fittest.

 

No more than blaming the state of their economy on American real estate ventures while ignoring cultural ("employed for life") and governmental effects. They may be big winners in a number of industries but their overall economy has still been in trouble for a long time (everyone's hoping that this rally is the one).

I'm not pretending to be an expert but reading on their educational system suggests crushing workloads and tons of learning by rote. I found this interesting: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/9151/educate.html

 

Slim...Thank you for the kudo. It's very long hours with a high level of dedication to making a 24-month business plan work (that I am half way through and a bit ahead of!). I think I'm going to have a stroke at times, but this is what America and opportunities are about!

 

Slim: you say they look at Gates and see "what a good life is like" - I think that's a BIG part of our perception problem: that is a life of blatant excess (I'm not saying wrong or bad, but certainly excessive) and we're lured into thinking that's what it's all about.

I think about this issue a lot. I came to the US from Canada for mainly this reason. I feel somewhat like KDS. Because I'm more aggressive and entrepreneurship oriented, I feel more at home amongst Americans in general.

Obviously, I'm acting in my own interest because this imbalance in the socioeconomics benefits me. I didn't come to America to be at the bottom. Opportunity is almost unlimited -- this is opposed to Canada where the dole is too good to be in threatening poverty but anything over a certain amount is heavily taxed. No high highs, no low lows. Everyone gets sucked into a vanilla universe where even Japanese cars are too expensive (!) and aspirations are kept low.

The result is not unlike what has been expressed by the Australia-to-US immigrants in the Aussie forum, that many, many Canadians are goal-less and uninspiring. I find it hard to talk job-stuff with my family because everyone in the blue-collar steeltown I'm from measures salaries by the hour. "Oh, he's making $18 an hour now." "What's that per hour?" Unions are stabilizing in that they balance things out and bring up the bottom end, but they stagnate growth. A lot of commentators blame Canada's 30% production efficiency deficit to the US on union power costing funds that doesn't go to equipment and capital. Of course, the government bureaucracy is also something to deal with.

Then I think about moving to Europe, or maybe back to NZ or Australia. The quality of life is fine, as a lawyer I'd still be "well off," but I couldn't enjoy some of the good things we have living in the US (esp. luxury goods like a Ferrari, which are cheapest here).

What do I want for my kids? Do I want to work so much, or would I rather a shorter workweek?

I'm afraid because the insatiable drive to success I've developed might have me frustrated with those around me in a place like that. Hawaii frustrated me for that reason: I loved it there and the people, but the lack of business opportunities - and the lax push for them and distaste for capitalism - disenchanted me to life on the islands, at least for my younger working years.

The "sink or swim" mentality has worked well for me so far, because I've been a good swimmer up to this point by following the tried-and-true American formula of staying in school and pushing myself to excel in what I do (mostly academic to this point). Kind of like Mark McCormack's 110% solution(although his books are really just fluff).

But, to bring up the other side, I am worried that our avarice has lead us to working long, long hours and forcing the wife from the home and family (note: I'm not saying they can't work, but lament that they *have* to work in many instances).

To counter myself though, many people are working two jobs to have material things *now* that are surely luxuries and things their parents saved up for for long periods (ie. buying a TV, new couch set, 2nd/3rd/8th cars, taking a vacation). I think many of the middle class are tricked by advertising, credit lenders and the Joneses to believe that luxury goods (and I have a wide definition of "luxury" -- I usually include health care in that category) should be had by all, and right now. But I digress.

I don't know want I like, but I've "voted with my feet" by moving to the United States instead of other countries I was considering. It's easier to make it here than other countries where you have to marry into a certain nobility family to be successful in business.

 

ryalex....

I would have followed you and everyone else who has left Canada for the US if in fact I had the necessary luck and/or paperwork....which alas....being a Canadian without employment sponsorship or relatives gives me no hope at all.

We are not even allowed to apply for the green card lotteries.

 

typical mantry - "WINNER TAKE ALL"

assumes the typical dem point of view that the PIE is fixed and some are eating more than their fair share.

do you have any fewer birdies on the course because tiger's sinken 'em?

well folks. the pie isnt fixed. those that create value, add to value, manipulate value will be compensated in this economy. michael jordan, bill gates and steven spielberg get paid the big bucks "not because someone just gives it to them or they are lucky" but becuase the provide value.

and in todays "information" products age you can create a product with slim profit margins and due to the global marketplace (volume) become very wealthy.

 

Slim: I think you're right, you really have to hang around for a while and see how things work and people function to understand a socioeconomic culture like you want to know.

But, if you can't live abroad right away, I recommend PJ O'Rourke's "Eat the Rich." It's a well written, funny as heck and easy to read economic analysis of a dozen different economic styles written by Rolling Stone Mag's political/econ writer as he spent 6 weeks each in all these different countries on a worldwide trip where he got to see firsthand how their economies "work." He's pretty straight to the point and writes with biting irony.

I agree with Henry though that capitalism does create many resources -- I would argue that capitalism is not the problem but depotism, nepotism, dictatorships, widespread corruption, organized crime and resource hoarding by evil regimes and policies... this is what is screwing over the real people in poverty in the world (very, very few of which reside in America).

 

Slim,

I lived in Germany for 9 years, Austria for 1 year, Sweden for 1 year, and studied in Central Europe (Hungary and Czech Republic) for 6 months as well as Japan for 6 months.

Wouldn't trade our system for any of theirs.

Regards,

Jon

 

Well said !!

 

Just to ad to Jon's comments.....

I lived for 8 years in Germany.

I lived for one year in France.

I lived for 6 months in Egypt.

I lived for another year in Germany.......8 years after the first go round.

I have lived in Brasil in total over the last 4 years approximately 18 months....usually 6-8 weeks at a time.

I have travelled to over a dozen countries and lived in places that ecompass a prettywide spectrum of the socioeconomic stratus.

I still find it amazing to this day that there are Americans who think their system needs what the Democratic party or their alternatives can offer.

Last but not least......I am a Canadian and I am not proud of it anymore......I receognize how good it is in the US, and if people like Slim and others want to see what unchecked socialism can do, just visit here for a while, get a job, pay your taxes, and look around with your eyes wide open.

The American socialist has already had a chance....and they wrecked "The People's Republic of Kalifornia".....so while on paper the experiment looks viable...it died a painful in the petrie dish that is that state.

People will always try to paint a rosy picture to it and warm your heartstrings with emotion because if you see the logic and past history of their arguments you would never fall for it in the first place.

And....that is why we have Darwin.......and Gordon Gecko.......