Do you subscribe to the "3 year belt change" rule?

'Bout right. plus parts and extras, you can easily drop $4K+ in my shop.

 

Baaa haaaaaaa !!!!!!!!

A straightforward belt replacement on a 308/328 does not take 26 hours. A skilled mechanic can do it in under 2 hours.

Here in the UK we pay around £300 + tax for a basic cambelt replacement (which would include new V belts but not tensioner bearings). New bearings would add about £80-£90

Bear in mind that's not a service, thats just a belt replacement. An annual service on a 308/328 will normally run to about £400+ tax

Current exchange rate is roughy $2 : £1 BUT in terms of cost of living/general prices the UK is much dearer so its not a sensible comparison to just double the numbers to get a comparible dollar price - maybe multiply by 1.5 which would give a comparible dollar price of around $450-$500 just for a belt change.

Ask your "trained technician" to document what he's doing for 26 hours?!?!?! Sleeping for half of it I think - it shouldn't even take that long to do a full "major".

Also note that the prices I have given are inclusive of parts/fluids etc whereas your $2200 seems to only be for labour.

 

I've noticed that Ferrari service in the UK is much cheaper than here in the colonies. I saw an ad in AutoItalia that TR/Boxer cam belt service with tensioner bearings was only ~1200 to my recollection...here the prices are $6k+. At those prices it is almost cheaper to ship your car to the UK, have the service done, then drive it around for a couple weeks on holiday and then ship it back home...you will save a little more by not having to rent a car for 2 weeks too...

 

+1 Good post

 

I'm just as concerned as the next guy about proper service to my car, but I don't subscribe to the 3 year rule. My car just had the major done last winter and upon inspection, the belt and tensioners were almost like new. Now, I know how I drive and that comes into play. If I was putting heavy miles on it, keeping it outside where the elements might be a factor, or running it hard, I'd be more inclined to have the major done on this schedule. I feel five years is very conservative for my driving / mileage style and the parts reflected it once removed. Frankly, some talk about this service as a "belt change", but I think the belt is not the weak link. The belts designed today are much stronger than 8 years ago. It's the bearings that you have to be careful about, IMO.

 

I hear many now are no longer going with the OEM bearings but are substituting them with the Hill engineering bearing. Are they that much better?

 

I was told they were by members here, my mechanic, Ricambi, and Hill (lol)............ So I put them on mine.

 

...and they will probably stay that way till you guys start asking why you are being charged so much & what exactly you get for your money.

Either that or our mechanics just work a heck of a lot faster!!

I've seen people on here reporting charges in the USA of $2-$300 just to change 8 spark plugs that cost less than $50 & that can be changed (even by me) in less than 30 minutes. While you keep cheerfully handing over the cash nothing is going to change very much.

This is not a cheap country to live in & property prices/rents/business rates in the South are through the roof & wages keep climbing & yet we still pay a lot, lot less with, I think, much better transparency of what we get for our money.

I.

 

I understand your issue. Make it a 'sticky' then add to the discussion, but someone searching this message is going to get confused.

We have even Lost, albeit by some just as well a loss to see them go [not me], of some consultants who got sick and tired of the same old issues.

IMO either make these subjects an ongoing poll, with sticky threads and NOT subscribe to starting new threads for confusing searches.

it does not seem to add to the 'technical areas' of discussion. is this a slow news day?

 

didn't read this until now, but here is a great example. and like I just mentioned: SOME are glad he is gone: NOT ME.

I know where he give advice now, and althought a not-as-robust site [today] I think if chat continues to give loose threads on common subjects, that this site will become no more than a beat my gums site.

Ya' I'm sure someone will go over my posts and say 'lookie here, sonomarik is posting cr@p' never said I was an even good gear head, I came here for great insight from those that know. BUT honestly, haven't we heard enough of the same common questions...AND I say this for only ONE reason: we have all done searches on here and can come up with 'zillions' of threads that relate to the same subject. Seems we need to have a better way of going over tons of words, and such.

ok, wrong place to vent this, but that's my point.

outta' here.

 

I agree with you, Paul. I really hate surprises.

 

Just to be clear about something.....

Most of our Fcars are 2nd and 3rd or more drivers....not daily drivers. So, 5 year / 50k miles doesn't seem right or 3 yr / 30k miles. I would probably change my belts if I was in that mileage range. But, I'm not........ So either around 25k miles or 5 years, which ever is first is my comfort level.

 

And this is why we loose consultants, who do know how to service cars, and not just buy them. The 'gear-heads' who are DIY's here [I am NOT one] are NOT my idea of excellent, Ferrari, experience, but are valued for the small items. Even if some involve the engine out, belts, changes. I agree not to follow rules absolutely but you offer no alternative to the 'subscribing' theory. On what more than chat do you offer proof over Ferrari technical advice. Why, you ask do I bother to stifle your chat: because there are new persons always seeing these redundant threads to get confused...it continually gets thrashed and regurgitated.
You mention anecdotal, 2nd hand experience from DIY'ers. Great bunch of guys, but this site has[had] more to offer than 'chat'. It had 'consultants' who are in the biz. for a living, who have seen it first hand.
DIY'ers:
Do they read all the latest Ferrari technical docs, probably not. IF so, which ones do you rate?
Do they service a LOT of Ferrari vehicles/items, probably not.
Do they sport a Ferrari school sheep-skin, probably not.

so to tell a prior consultant to 'bite me' for effect: well, my attitude has been affected.

 

Brian didnt leave because people kept starting threads to discuss the same issues. He left because people who have almost no buisness working on a car come in here posting erroneous information and poor mechanical practices and then argue thier BS stance when confronted by trained mechanics. He left because people would come giving erroneous information that ran counter to the service manual, then argued and called people like him idiots. He left because seemingly intelligent people, people smart enough to figure out how to own a Ferrari, were to damned lazy or ignorant to look in the owners manual to read how to check the oil level. Something that even if you dont own one, you could simply download online directly from the Ferrari website. And he left because even though he had nothing to gain, and never recieved a dime for his trouble, people with almost zip for experience would argue with his lifetime of Ferrari trained service and racing experience. Among those here who are mechanics, and especially among those who are Ferrari mechanics, Brian was highly respected. Among those who wouldnt know one end of a water pump from the other, they could give a damn who who was. FerrariChat lost a valuable resource when He walked away.

As far as endless questions about belt life and cost, I dont think most care how many times it comes up. But people like Brian, Dave, and others, myself included, get very tired of people suggesting to others to ignore Ferrari's suggested intervals and risk incredible expense. What you do with your own car is your thing. When some poor SOB comes here looking for advice, we should steer them down the road that causes them the least risk or grief. Cars sitting not running in the garage with bent valves, mashed pistons, and repair costs exceeding half the cars value are hard for wives and kids to swallow when Daddy already broke the bank buying the car. Its not F'ing worth it. Ferrari friends shouldnt let thier Ferrari friends blow thier engines. Er on the side of least risk, or at least prescribe it to others. Is three years overkill? It might seem that way with everyone asking for $5K to fix your car. Just snapping on some belts and bearings to protect the engine shouldnt really be more that a 2 hour job, start to finish. It can and has been done. Its not a 30K service, but it will protect the engine.

 

Any decent engineer will be able to inspect the bearings and presuming they have been used for a few miles determine if they require changing. A used bearing is less likely to fail once its past inspection than a brand new unknown part. A part fitter will blindly replace components for no real reason other then their lack of knowledge and experience. The engineer who works on my car recommends changing belts every 3 years and replacing bearings "when required" - I trust his judgement and bow to his 30 years of Ferrari experience.

 

I go along with this line of thinking...I'm planning to do my first change at 4 yrs, 15k miles since I don't know how it was driven before.

Bottom line, there's no right or wrong answer to this question. It's just your appetite for risk. If my car was a simple in-situ belt change I'd probably go for 3 yrs. But since I need to remove the whole @#$! engine to change the timing belt...yeah, 4 yrs is fine.

And why do some people get so upset when a question that was addressed often in years past is asked again? No need to pee in the punch bowl if some owners want to discuss an 'old' topic that has no definitive answer...

 

But people like Brian, Dave, and others, myself included, get very tired of people suggesting to others to ignore Ferrari's suggested intervals .[/QUOTE]

So, at least you three plus those "others" should agree with the every 52,500 cam belt change interval as that's what the OMs recommends...at least on the 328, 348 and TR...

 

But isn't this exactly the point. The DIY'ers are great. Some, can't think of all, but FatBBob comes to mind etc. etc. give good posts and contribute [sorry if I left out the host of good posts...we should have an award day ]. BUT They have a cohesive/coherent thread that is easy to research, follow, and digest.
THAT is what I'm getting into: we need to keep this 'belts' thing, 'oil' thing, 'guides' thing, 'shocks', tubi, cats ...list goes on and on. things to a research area where one doesn't feel almost obligated to re-read. NEWBIES are especially vunerable in the begin, then the humor starts, the pics and .... 'there we go again [Ronald R. voice].'

Ya' Brian had complaints, but even if the DIY'ers didn't like his hard-ass approached to practical facts, he DID offer state of the art contributions worth listening to. Lately, the redundant threads are more like jaw-yapping' for 'listen to me'...'slow news day'...let's stir up the old issues to hear our selves until something better comes along.'
BUT
is it worth it, I feel not really
For real research and easy of finding, it is a big, waste of time to sort out that one [very minor one] gem of insight.

these issues should be on some sort of diagram....humor went ---> that way, and tech. help ---> this way, etc.
that's all I'm saying.
BUT you know, I probably should not just post venting here...after all, I could just stop reading these things and [email protected]
felt perhaps others were feeling the same thing

 

Well said !!
I agree, with that said in my tr manuel it says 7 years or 52,500 miles, i did it in 99, and now again in 2007 ( i cheated abit) and went 8 years, but i started the car regularly. My 308 booklet is similar.

I think what people will find is, the car will leak and cause other issues which wil eventually force you to go in regardless. I knwo my TR had sweat everywhere, even if i wanted to go another year or 2, the belts and tensioners should no issues. BUT....my waterpump drain was plugged, and the leaks were killing my garage floor. Here is the before and after pic.

If the 360 says 3 yrs, then you should follow the 3 year plan....i think the other problem is, people are into these cars, not really understanding the operating cost, and then try to stretch. Its hard to admit to yoruself after you bought one of these, that you maybe really cant afford one. Cause if you did, it wouldnt be an issue.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

+1. I like to clean up/fix minor oil leaks and have everything gone over anyway. Last time we found a questionable fuel line and replaced that.

But yes, I wonder why UK prices are so low for these services.

 

Yes but remember that the books say different things depending on which country you are in - and yet the cars all came out the same factory with the same parts on them.

My UK 328 book says 2 years or 25K miles for cambelts.

My book also doesn't specify an interval for the tensioner bearings and, as we all know, it probably should.

I.

 

Either our guys work much faster or you guys are getting fleeced - take your pick.

(Cue argument that cost of doing business(insurance etc) in the US is much higher - which I doubt very, very much given overall cost of living here).

 

True dat i would say 25K...the 2 yr part are you sure it says that. Both my books say 30,000m for the "glass" car and 52,500m for the tr...so im going with a ball park of 6/7 years...maybe 8 if im feeling lucky that summer, since i will never do the miles part.

As far as shop prices, i think everything is relative in our respective counties (so to speak). The pound is about 2.5 times the CDN dollar (which is almost US par)...and all the Uk prices ive seen when doing the math seem about the same (for me)

 

This thread is just a bit more than 24 hours old, and the great belt debate is being beat to death yet again, and we even got some consultant-bashing thrown in to-boot. AND lets not forget the UK vs US service costs slamming.

LOL I've only been a part of FChat for about a year now, gotta love it... its addicting

James in Denver