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Dodged a bullet

Discussion in '308/328' started by jdamon, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    #1 jdamon, Mar 8, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    Decided to rebuild my water pump as part of the major, and man was it a mess in there! I feel lucky to have not had a full on pump failure... there was nothing coming out of the weep holes, but as you will see, they were completely clogged with corrosion and oil/water/dirt etc. one of the bearings was mush, and the other one had broken the seal, but had not disintegrated yet... not sure if I can salvage the housing, but will have to see how well it cleans up. The seal looks like the standard one, but the ceramic ring that goes between seal and impeller is not something I can find in any of the drawings for 308/328? I am guessing it's the "uprated" version, but does anybody recognize it? Or know where to find it? I am gonna just go ahead and buy a new one, but am curious as to identity of the pump parts that are on there. Maybe I can rebuild and keep as a spare. Thanks!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG].

    I realize the outer race is still in there, but the corrosion looks bad enough to maybe not worry about removing it
     
  2. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Seal and rings that I don't recognize
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Well, 2 things.

    1. This must be a product of your imagination because according to a recent thread with contributions from all of the usual experts a 308 pump cant fail this way.

    2. I have rebuilt a lot of 308/328 pumps and I do not recognize the seal parts you are showing. Where did you get them?
     
  4. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    1. Hah

    2. Not sure, it was replaced by the previous mechanic labeled as "uprated" on the invoice. It was done in 2003, so it's been a while. Only ~10k miles though. Maybe it's the one superformance sells, labeled as "uprated". Anybody take one of those apart yet?
     
  5. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    #5 waymar, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have my WP off for another project. (1982 308GTSi) I took it apart to see what it looks like as it was rebuilt by FD over 5 years ago.
    3 bearings. 2 back to back by the pulley end then shortened spacer and then 3rd bearing in standard location.
    Standard PS1000 seal. With sealant around base. Same pump seal on many pool pumps
    Seat is steel or steel composite epoxy in place. Not standard.
    Sealant where the impeller and shaft join.
    Matching arrows on shaft and impeller.

    Was rebuilt 5 years ago and was not leaking. I took it apart for intel. Total rebuild parts cost - 3 bearings, seal and shaft lock $31. The seat has very minor wear marks.
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  6. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Thanks waymar!

    I think the "seats" that came off mine are more or less spacers? The pump seal is the bit with the spring in it, and I am assuming it does the majority of the sealing? The seats I have are metal of some kind with seals between each layer, I am not sure what those seals are or potentially where to get them. I do like the extra bearing style rebuild, might try to shorten spacer and add an extra bearing if I can figure out what that seat seal is. This may also be an incorrect rebuild from the last guy, so I may try to put the seat that is supposed to be in there, in there, and see how it all lines up. Very interesting
     
  7. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Looking at your pics we appear to have the same seal. Basic seal PS1000 (on the pump housing) Your seat (part on the impeller) is somewhat different. Like I said no leaks in 5 years, and it wasn't leaking when took it apart. I had the pump off the motor for other reasons and decided to dissect it. I like the 3 bearings design. More support on the outside pulley end of the shaft. Not sure if all pumps have alignment arrow marks on the impeller and shaft like in my one pic. I'm thinking since the seat was epoxy in place that its matched.

    You can buy a PS1000 type seal with a metal seat at McMaster Carr.
     
  8. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Thanks again, I already ordered a new pump as I am skeptical of the housing, but I will also order the replacement seal/ seat from Mac master. Thanks so much for the info.

    Also, there is no alignment mark on my impeller. I think the back is different as well, but I have to go take a look, yours looks to have a raised portion in the center where the seat is attached.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,122
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The factory never did alignment marks. I have rebuilt a lot of those and that is the first time I have seen it. There are several impellor designs, housing designs and a couple of shaft designs depending on which seal design was used at the time.
     
  10. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
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    Jeff
    The back of my impeller is not anywhere near as raised as yours, so I will need a different seat, or a different impeller. The shaft is not notched either.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Interesting thread. Besides not leaking the motor never has seen anything over 210deg in summer traffic with AC on.
     
  12. Eforg23

    Eforg23 Karting

    Oct 11, 2006
    162
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Eric Forgione
    Just a heads up. Check the water unions on the housing. Mine were corroded and had to be drilled out. [​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    #13 waymar, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. jdamon

    jdamon Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2015
    288
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Jeff


    Thanks for the heads up, that looked pretty gnarly! I am changing all water hose at the same time, and luckily all the hose connections are fine.
     

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