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Does K n N air filter really work?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Circle K, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    Jan 9, 2021
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    Very interresting !
    not sure that research negates the beneficial effects of a pre-oiler ! they did not test motors using one did they ?
    We do know "dry starts" are said to be harmful
    it does seem to say that warmed up oil is beneficial !
    Very logical ! THX !
    So,
    I have a stick on small low wattage 120 volt, A/C pad for oil pan application I have not used yet as we live in the desert and it rarely gets REALLY cold !
    but you know , my spidey sense told me it was a good idea ! ( why I bought it ! )
    maybe I should stick it on the oil tank ! and use it if I know several hours before I am going to use the car ? good idea ?
    i determined the normal oil level of cold motor is hardly in the upper portion of the F430 tank ! most of it ( until hot ) is in the case behind the motor
    WOW! THAT will REALLY annoy some purists !
    ( the heating pad )
    I bet a pre-oiler circulating warm , 200+ degree oil IS the best solution! ( and / or a heater also heating up, circulating the now warmed radiator fluid ! we could fit a small electric Bosch auxiliary pump for the coolant and a 120 A/C volt heating element for water !
    warm oil and water= a happy, low-wearing motor !

    we were going to use the electric water and oil pumps to COOL a shut off turbo motor car ( Not a Ferrari ) as we have had damage, oil coaking fr oil left in the turbo AFTER shutdown ! ( Heat soak is, can be a dangerous, deleterious Phenom in turbo cars! ) Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  3. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    I think I have

    Seemed like a good idea at the time to introduce a freer breathing filter. And it is performing well

    However

    I believe the one agreed to point across this entire thread is that the K&N does not filter particulates better than OEM. Arguably it filters sufficiently, but not better

    So why take any risk at all

    If anyone wants a set of K&N for an F430 with only a few miles on them (haven't been able to drive due to snow), lemme know, you can have them half price plus shipping
     
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  4. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    That's how Formula 1 engines are run for the past couple of decades - the tolerances are so tight that when the engine is cold it is effectively siezed and can't be turned over. The teams circulate heated coolant and oil through the engine for a couple of hours before a start is required to warm it up, expand clearances, so that it will turn over when they want to start it!

    Gordon
     
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  5. otoupalik

    otoupalik Karting

    Feb 22, 2004
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    As someone who spent an extended time with a F430 Novitec, the answer is "anyone who isn't happy with OE performance!" lol The stock power levels are "ok" but some of us like MORE HP! Frankly, I find the stock levels to be a bit lacking. But I race cars and regularly spend time in 800HP+ monsters. Having been chief instructor of a Ferrari track school, I can tell the difference immediately between a stock 430 and a "better" 430. So everyone's mileage may vary!

    Depends on what you are doing with your cars of course. Daily drivers, cruising around - stock is more than enough. Weekend toys to really drive and push and enjoy - stock is rarely enough.

    But again that is the point! We all should be able to enjoy these toys as we like. Rarely do you see a "modifier" yell at a "stocker" - but the "stock" crowd always wants to try to convince/scare the modifiers as they simply dont understand the mentality.

    I am a modifier. My dad was. My grandpa was. I dont have one car that is stock (even the EV's) and never will and honestly never have in 30+ years and just as many cars/trucks.

    Heck, even my golf carts and track scooters were modified! Ever seen a golf cart with a shifter cart motor and exhaust? Its fast! lol

    To each their own!

    Colorful, if you dont feel comfortable with the filters, yank 'em out. There is no reason to do so other than your level of comfort though. But as its your $$, you make the call! Then enjoy your car and dont stress! :D
     
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  6. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    Sorry i do not concur it is an agreed-upon point , it is apparently among the naysayers ! of course they are entitled to their position albeit we feel they are misinformed ! many men of quite extensive experience have said here, and elsewhere , the K & N work just fine and filter quite well . I am among them ! it is not even debated among racers and tuners . Men of speed are convinced indeed !
    Oh I get it the purists will never be convinced and we have noted they oppose near anything except stock and standard. they are consistent and reliably negatory tword most any modification . they have a pattern , observable and if someone bothered to do the data ,science provable ! they are reactionary and as Franklin said: ,:
    "A reactionary is a somnambulist walking backwards."

    Franklin D. Roosevelt

    PS a VERY ! generous offer ! the K &n at half tariff ! I would / will take you up on it !
     
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  8. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    I will note that I will be soon using a Bypass ULtra fine filter system, and pre oiler w/ pre heated oil which will assure my oil is hyper cleaned, and toasty warm so MY motor will be snug, smiling and satiated! AND clean to a level FAR below nearly anyone ! So once again my mods will let me most likely , enjoy a longer engine life than the purists ! You can be fast AND make it last !
     
  9. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    @otoupalik

    Regarding "anyone who isn't happy with OE performance!"

    I have swapped the cats for test pipes, have aftermarket headers and will be installing my just arrived Kline exhaust, and will likely get a tune, so yeah, I'm with you, phenomenal, impactful upgrades. Those all make the car better (imo) with no risk. I like what the K& N does, but not at the cost of peace of mind (for me)

    @janmante not to rehash, but the K&N filters well as you state "the K & N work just fine and filter quite well", but not as good as OEM, particulate pass through is not high, but it is highER than OEM

    Of course for racing, every bit of power counts, but I'm in it for the long haul, so the filter that prohibits the most particulate is what I'm going to go with. If you want the K&N's, PM me please.
     
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  10. janmante

    janmante Karting
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    I think you are being a tad too obsessed w/ a tiny ( if any ) more dirt man we have used these for 50 + years ! it is really NOT an issue and at some point, you NEED better, freer filters OR they become a bottleneck .agree ?
    You drive your modded car in serious anger ? theses filters are not going to make whit of wear difference !
    I have seen some desert racers use a sort of pre filters w/ K& n in the WORST conditions maybe a fine design pre-filter would address your concerns and still breathe better ?
    Lets ask K &N ! they DO have real engineers in their employ !
    anyway, what's your price ? I can use your K &N !
    PS thx for being decent in this discussion too ! there ARE some adults in the room ! :)
     
  11. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    OK, so perhaps I am being a tad obsessed. I've had sports cars for 35+ years, however this was a MAJOR jump for me and a major investment, so I find I am more often than not second guessing myself and sometimes maybe landing on the side of paranoid. I have been doing most of the work on it myself and the thought of anything impacting the engine kinda freaked me out I guess.

    Practically speaking, when I pulled the prior air filters, they were in there for a while, based on the condition of the rubber frame. My car was in Southern CA, NY and Ohio before I got it. The filters I pulled out were old, but very clean. It would be reasonable to assume that the air the car will be exposed to will not be very dirty to begin with based on my planned driving.

    So, since I do like the K&N's sound and performance, I'm going to try them for a year, clean them and see what comes out, and re-visit the decision at that point.

    Thank you all for the spirited debate. Many compelling arguments for both sides that helped me get to this conclusion. Hopefully this approach is a reasonable one that I won't regret!
     
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  13. otoupalik

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    #110 otoupalik, Feb 24, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
    Now your talking! Great mods! Enjoy the hell out of that car!!!

    I will leave this warning, an engine is an air pump. If you want to be able to pump more air OUT, you also need to pump more air IN! You can do all the best mods post engine, but if the restriction is upstream, then you are limiting your gains and starving the engine for air.

    This is why we actually tested everything on the dyno, on the street and on the track. We would monitor restrictions and A/F ratios for all significant mods. Integrated systems that work together always work the best.

    As said previously, I use Pleated Gauze in our Ferrari. We use BMC FWIW. The mods are filters, intake and exhaust. We saw 50+ WHP gain with these mods, and have 30K on the car since installed. No issues, again, FWIW.

    I think you hit the nail on the head, and I think I said this upfront. If you are occasionally driving and in an environment that is relatively free of contaminants (ie: not driving from Riyad to Damam in Saudia Arabia weekly), there is truly little risk.

    However, the most important thing is to ENJOY your car and ownership. So if any mod makes you nervous, don't do it! That is my #1 rule!

    I just don't appreciate people who actually are not well educated on a topic swaying people away with internet lore as opposed to fact. There have been some in this thread on both sides that tried to be factual and some that just want to argue. The former are better for the community! I think that Jan felt the same and I understand his passion about trying to counter "fake news" that is all too rampant on the net and these forums.

    Thanks
    Brad
     
  14. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    Thank you Brad and Jan

    Everyone is passionate about the cars and the issues, so we all benefit from the debate and learn along the way.

    I get your point that there are 2 places you need to consider, in and out, which is why I put the hi flow filter in in the first place.

    Thank you for your perspective, agree people have to enjoy first, so whatever facilitates that is what works.

    And I'm enjoying it!

    I also had a 6spd conversion done, talk about enjoying driving it, woah.
     
  15. otoupalik

    otoupalik Karting

    Feb 22, 2004
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    Nice! The F1 is really lacking in the 430. The best options are to either load challenge trans software or 6-spd swap. The 6-spd swap is really the best option IMHO!

    It is nuts how the 6-spd cars are going up in value. I helped a friend buy a nice red/tan 5 years ago for $85K! lol Now its gone up 50-70%!

    I know that paddles are "better" on paper (especially with updated software), but man, for my $, nothing is better than the "snick-snick-snick" as you hit the metal gate running through the gears. Windows down, open exhaust - just like Enzo wanted!

    Well done!
     
  16. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    Or better yet , topless!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. otoupalik

    otoupalik Karting

    Feb 22, 2004
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    Rock on! Doin' it right! :D
     
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