Does "Kustomizing" hurt the Testarossa market?

OK - disclaimer...I am a conservative and I bought my car because I liked it for what it is.

I do not consider myself (or anybody else not working for PF) as worthy to enhance the looks of the Testarossa. Here recently there have been numerous threads on such things as going to custom wheels, painting the wheels black, substituting different bumpers or valence panels, putting 512M taillights on early cars, and of course - the easy cheap way to that custom look - removing those side strakes. Heck, it's just some old car, isn't it?

There is also a thread or two going just now which lament the low prices that the Testarossa is bringing in the market.

I am standing here with flame suit on; so -

Is it possible that if we owners respected what we have a little more protectively, our market would not be so soft?

Just because we got them "on the cheap", for a classic 12cyl Ferrari, that is - is not an excuse to paint them pink, slam & airbag them, or cut them into targas, etc. etc.

James

 

I think in 10 years the owners that have kept their cars original will be glad they did. If I had the cash laying around in a laundry basket, I'd buy one for an investment. I remember less than 5 years ago I could've bought a beautiful Boxer for about $60k. I wish I would've. I think TR's will be next.

 

If I had the dough I'd buy a beater TR and send it out somewhere. Probably make a Koenig Evolution out of it. I don't really see what is wrong with doing that to a TR.

Depends on the tastefulness of the work and the reputation of the shop that did the work IMHO. There are enough of these cars around and they are cheap enough that you don't kill the brand by doing so.

 

Would you see anything wrong with doing this to a Boxer?

 

+1. I believe some cars should never be touched. But the TR is not rare. Koenig EVO done correctly would be awesome!

As for the BB. That would be one that I wouldnt touch. Hard to make that look any better than it already is. There is a yellow Koenig'd BB kicking around in Montreal which I used to find cool. But That quickly changed.

 

I think if anyone is worried about the resale on a Ferrari or for that matter any exotic, they should first worry about the economy. When things are going good, then people don't mind spending money on non-essential things. Like I said in another thread, my CPA would be shaking his head side to side and saying "cars are not good investments". It seems like when you need the money, times are depressed, and when you don't everything is going great. Buy it and drive it. If your afraid of what someone might do to it, there is a simple solution. Buy it from them and then you will corner the market.

John

 

I think you can be too precious about this. Its a car. Did you buy it as a car to drive and enjoy or as an 'investment'?

If you enjoy it standard then that's great. If you want to spray your spare rims black - and I do - then do it.

Nothing I do on my TR will be irreversible and should I want to sell it it can be put back to a standard spec pretty easily. The Challenge seats will go in, the originals will go into storage and I'll have some fun.

Personally I think standard spec cars will hold their value better but I want some black rims to go with my non-standard (ie louder) exhaust system that will make my trip to Le Mans that much better.

Is Customising harming the TR market? I doubt it.

 

Two points:

a) - There are probably far more '32 Ford hot-rods running around now than there are originals in steel. You can even buy the body panels in metal or fibreglass, a full custom frame, etc. if you want to make a street rod. Given these facts, does it follow that perhaps originals should be left as they are?

b) - Carrying this on to the Testarossa, where is the motivation to make mechanical or cosmetic mods to this car? I don't get it; the cost will never be recovered, it WILL NOT look better (just outlandishly different), and mechanically these cars are not going to be modified into an Enzo beater anyway.

Pardon me for saying it, but the attitude seems to be like with a teenage runaway - "Well, I guess it's kind of inevitable that she is on Crack; she was a dime a dozen and from the wrong side of the tracks anyway. Just another street kid."

I think this is a classic that deserves a little more respect. Should we bring back the thread on the Luigi Boxerini custom?

 

James , I love it when people destroy and molest a Testarossa and use parts from Home Depot to repair them. It makes my well maintained origianl car with receipts worth more. Give it a few more years and all these Home Depot butchered cars will be parts cars and nice original examples will command a premium, it is already starting to happen a little with the 308 market.

 

James,
I doubt you would find anyone under 60 that could agree with (a).

(b) The cost of my swimming pool will never be recovered, but I sure do like floating in it with a beer. The second part of your statement is your viewpoint and whoever else shares it, there are many others that don't. Get over it.

I'm still working on your last statement. I'm sure there is a theme there. The people who are intent on modifying there cars will do so, regardless of what you like. That's one of the reasons they painted the car in different colors other than red. That was right wasn't it?

John

 

Ferrari honors to you, Sparta. I was feeling out-numbered. It may not be long before an original Testarossa is like an out-of-print book that you cannot find anywhere.

You know, I always hated it back in the seventies when I saw people drilling six taillights in those mid-year stingray corvettes, or hanging on cheap mag-aluminum wheels and tacking on radius fender flares.

Now that the originals are worth so much, and customs are things no one wants to admit to, those modifications are mysteriously getting removed (at great cost).

And you could say, hey those were "only Corvettes", and "they made a gazillion of them anyway"...

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but you need to take it in context.

A spare set of black wheels and keeping my originals as standard is no great shakes if I like it that way. The standard kit can be swapped back whenever I like easily.

Now if I sprayed the car pink that's a major modification and not one I'd recommend if you wanted to get top £££'s later on....but....you pay good money for the car and its an individuals right to do what they like with a car. I can't remember reading that its against the law to modify and/or improve your own property.

Your analogy is a little skewed....I don't think we're all gonna chop our TR's and apply flames up the sides ....hmmmmmm... so the Ford hot rod example is a bit extreme but how many TR owners have dumped the standard exhaust and put a louder / performance one on? Is that beyond the pale too? How many have uprated the poor standard TR braking to Brembo's? Is that out too?

There was a thread the other week with a Gulf Blue 512TR. I personally thought it looked cool but then I am 39 years old and from West London! However I would agree that that car will never make top dollar against a standard one but (here's the rub) the owner may love it that way and who am I to stand in the way of that??

Anyway its dark and raining here in Sheffield so I'm signing off for the night. I'm off to Photoshop some black wheels

 

James.....

No I would not do any cosmetic modifications to a Boxer........they are too rare and twice to three times the price of a beater TR.

Would I build the engine up and redo other mechanical bits to improve them ?........sure I would.

 

Photoshop is OK, I guess. I have driven a car with Borla and Tubi as well, and frankly I find that they are loud and attention getting, but also have some odd and annoying resonances. The brakes? The biggest problem to me seems to be front-wheel lockup, so I don't know that bigger brakes would help all that much without an ABS system.

BTW, I may as well admit that there exists here on F-Chat photo evidence that my car has Recaro seats and several electronic add-ons (it may in fact be the king Testarossa as to silly aftermarket vintage 80s electronics). I still have the original unused seats. Estimates range upwards of $2.5K to get rid of the electronics - so as is often the case in life - be careful what you wish for, you might have to pay for it later. Or, at least your next owner.

BTW2, I also fight this originality battle on the original Corvette ZR-1 board. There seems to be a breakdown of three life paths for these great cars - the delivery miles only in a plastic bag bunch, cars like mine that are maintained as original and driven sparingly to preserve them, and the heavily modified cars whose owners seem to have something to prove to Viper owners.

OK, I will admit that I had the adjustable shocks on the ZR-1 rebuilt by Bilstein last year to autocross settings; but you can't tell it by looking.

 

Well as long as we are admitting stuff here, I installed hyperflow cats and a x-ost MAranello muiffler on the TR , the originals are wrapped and stored in the attic ready to be reinstalled. And if you are feeling outnumbered look at my signature below. I will stand with you!!!!

 

More than a few Boxers were modified in the late eighties and throughout the ninties. Was it a good long term financial choice for those folks? Likely not, but they had a great toy to enjoy at the time, and still can make a good chunk of change if they were to sell the cars today.

 

What are you saying about the 32 Ford? That it would be ok with everybody under 60 to just chop and channel the VERY LAST ONE?

I may not be able to just "get over it" as you suggest. I was psychologically harmed in the past by the spectacle of seeing a slightly drunk Texas Oily take a zaw-saw to the targa bar on a perfectly good 328GTS because he wanted to make a cabriolet out of it.

He thought it would make it worth more money. I may have to relate that terror again soon, just to flush the memory of it all from my system.

James

 

James,

Your point is well taken... Yes, there are many owners who would believe that touching an orginal design is sacrilege. P Diddy's version of 'Every Breath You Take' made me want to squeeze that last breath out of someone. But they made quite a few TR's, thousands, I think. Therefore, I figure what the heck, if I can manage to make the car look even better (IMO), why not? I love the TR's design but I have never been fond of the strakes. I have heard that they were not so much a design element as a they were a safety mandate. And I have turboed the car so that my much-loved former Ferrari flagship can still keep up with the new entry-level Chevy and Ford sportscars.

I wholeheartedly agree that I will never see any of my money when it comes to a sale (even if current market price doubles). But I have proudly invested in a Ferrari and I have worked on this car and I have made it mine. I see the look on people's faces when I roll up. I tell them that it's a real Ferrari with some of the performance and cosmetic modifications that you would see if the car were entered into a race. They are usually impressed with my commitment.

As Godber said, it is a question of a monetary investment or an investment in your passion for motoring. The original TR is undeniably great (regardless of market price). But when seen and heard in person, I doubt that my car can be denied either. So I say: 'do what makes you happy'. I think that Enzo would agree. Let us not forget that he modified so many of his cars (interiors, exteriors, engines) to meet the exact needs or specs of VIP customers. And so many of those mods were, um, questionable. In spite of those deviations, many of these rare cars are still quite valuable. So enjoy your car as it is and keep it original. Oh, and don't drive it either if you are concerned about it's value to everyone else. But if you want a dream car, then make your vision a reality. Me, I couldn't be happier unless I had enough dough to drop on a supercar (288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo). Now those race cars, I would never touch.

Please do not take this reply the wrong way. We are all brothers and sisters in this forum. I have respect for anyone who cares to contribute to a thread. And I have even more respect for actual exotic owners. I thrive on the information that different points of view provides. Good Luck

 

James,
If you wish to by the savior of the 32 Ford you should buy one and keep it. Maybe Ford has one for you to look at. I say when you put up the money it becomes yours to do with what you wish.

I am sorry about your mental health with the 328GTS. You should have given him your insight to try and change his mind. Ugliness happens everyday and you must toughen yourself to this.

We all make decisions based on some assumption or information that could be contrary to others beliefs. I might see some humor in your decision, but ultimately you will be the one who decides if it was right or wrong. The only reason I like commenting is because I find it fun.

John

 

Well, you actually kind of seem to be helping me make the point here.

The reason that I made this thread was to discuss the "perception" that it is perfectly OK to mod out a Testarossa to any degree just because they are relatively cheap and the "thousands" were made. My contention was that the mere fact that so many people seem completely OK with doing big mods on the Testarossa might be impacting their perceived value in the market - i.e. if the are just chop & part cars, then who would want to pay much for one?

What I am saying is that this cavalier attitude as to the Testarossa is hurting it's value. If you say you would never modify a GTO, F40, F50, Enzo then this seems to reinforce my point.

One thing to consider; even if thousands were made, I would not hesitate to bet that there are probably less than 300 really good original single mirror Testarossa cars left in the U.S. I would guess that of the 512M, maybe less than 50.

 

I took these photos at the ICF event back in 2006. It's ok with me but not when it's overdone, next time hide the spray can. The one photo I missed was the interior, I'm pretty sure you can get an idea what it looked like.
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Interesting thread -- lots of varied views, for sure!

I'm one of the folks who believes in keeping my cars completely correct, going for Platino awards at various concours, etc. And I have to admit that I cringe a bit whenever I see poseur shields glued on to an earlier Ferrari or cars with other non-original cosmetic modifications -- even the Tubi thing makes me shake my head a bit.

Before I owned my first Ferrari, I had a 911, and was somewhat surprised at the time that the big stacks of aftermarket tweak catalogues that existed for P-cars didn't seem to have any parallel in the F-car world. Probably 90 percent of this is that the much smaller volume of Ferraris made woudn't really support these businesses -- but might 10 percent be that part of Ferrari ownership has traditionally had to do with a fundamental respect for the marque and its (still evolving) history?

I'm not one of those folks who spends lots of time memorizing the serial numbers in Cavallino -- but I'm getting perilously close to being a "long term Ferrari guy" (16 years, four cars with a deposit down on a fifth).

The upshot of all of this is that I'm in the process of selling my bone-stock, one-owner 512TR -- and what I'm finding is that there are perilously few folks out there (at least right now) who seem to place monetary value on the fact that the car is original and correct. I don't know whether modding is bringing down the price overall, but from what I'm seeing, not modding doesn't seem to be making it skyrocket! All of that said, the people I have heard from do seem to appreciate and be looking for an original car -- so perhaps in this market it's a matter of finding a buyer more quickly rather than seeing any significant price bump.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose -- for every person pondering whether it's OK from a correctness perspective to ceramic-coat his headers while doing his own engine-out major in Chicago, in the winter, in a broom closet, there seem to be at least a few who want to change things around for reasons known only to themselves. I'm with the broom-closet guy.

Just one person's musings...

Best,

Gary

 

Clever use for the nylon tie-wraps.

He just had to make sure that everybody knew he was our "good taste in automotive things" from TEXAS.

The organizers were so impressed by his work that they put it right next to a Dino and a Daytona spider?

Pardon me, I must now purge.

 

The yellow coolant tank is a nice touch.

 

This issue is really arguable. It is certainly speculation with no factual basis. I think that there are currently too many cars like mine to make a difference either way. Please don't compare the value of a stock TR to the value of any of the supercars whose value has never diminished and only increased. The TR's value has been compromised for a long, long time, my friend. Customizers should not be blamed at this juncture. You might say that my custom TR has a compromised value. I disagree. I treasure my car much more than I did when it was stock like all the other TR's or regular production F-cars. I, and many of our comrades, have made a very smart investment in our happiness. I drive and enjoy the heck out of my car. If I had wished to buy a car for monetary gain, the TR would be one the last F-cars that I would have chosen. But as a promotional vehicle, I guarantee that my car would bring you more business than just about any stock production model =^) I suppose that I am glad that mine is not a single mirror or 512M. Again, I wish you all the best in your pursuits