Does this look right? | FerrariChat

Does this look right?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Nielsk, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. Nielsk

    Nielsk Karting

    Dec 8, 2012
    179
    Central Florida
    #1 Nielsk, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally everything is ready to go back together on the 308 GT4 full suspension rebuild, all clean, powder coated, new parts ready and waiting... so I take the rebuilt Konis and get the springs put back on. Now the front looks odd, with the packing there is little space left between the spring coils.
    This is the way there were set up when I took them off the car, with a thick spacer on top and bottom of the front springs. The spacers are clearly for top & bottom, as one is internally dished and one has a collar.
    The rear had no spacers. The front springs were around 13.5" long and the rear 14"
    Thoughts?
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  2. Spirit of Italy

    Spirit of Italy Karting

    Jan 3, 2015
    143
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Hans S
    Buy a set new springs, throw away the spacers, should not be there.

    Cheapest and easiest, set new springs from Superformance, UK for GT4. Uprated, give a nice firm ride.
     
  3. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,299
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    #3 robertgarven, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i-velocita likes this.
  4. Nielsk

    Nielsk Karting

    Dec 8, 2012
    179
    Central Florida
    Thanks for your reply, it looks like your pic is of a rear shock, this is on the front only.
    I have found no reference to these spacers in the GT4 books, but I seem to remember seeing them used on another 308 model...
     
  5. antoninosavoca

    antoninosavoca Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2011
    283
    Montesilvano Italy
    Full Name:
    antonino savoca
    Hi Nielsk ,i confirm , originally no spacer in gt4 front or rear shocks,i think probably someone put the spacer because of saddled springs.
    I suggest to put new springs of right lenght
     
  6. Rich S

    Rich S Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2013
    501
    Monterey, California
    Full Name:
    Rich Saylor
    I can imagine what a car driving along with such shocks & springs would look like upon hitting a bump or pothole... something like a Mexican Jumping Bean, mostly in the rear.

    Time for new front springs!

    Cheers,
    Rich
     
  7. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #7 finnerty, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    Someone may also have added them because they thought ---- incorrectly ---- that this was a good approach to either change the front end ride height or to stiffen the front suspension. It is not.

    That is a knucklehead modification and does not belong on the car.

    Dump the spacers, and measure those springs to see if they are still in spec --- if they are not, replace them with new / correct springs. My guess is that they are no longer in spec.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,823
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Those must be non-stock front springs (or non-stock Konis) -- with that much total spacer added it would raise the front end of the coachwork by ~3" (due to the magnification of the geometry) with the stock springs and shocks.
     
  9. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #9 finnerty, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think Steve may be right about those shocks. The extra stem length does not look like the stock units. They appear to be incorrect substitutes for the OE units ? I don't know for sure. Anyone else have OE units for comparison ?
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  10. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    These front springs are wrong, they have to many coils (windings). More coils=weaker spring. the installer had to compensate with the spacers.
     
  11. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #11 finnerty, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    ^ I'm afraid none of that is correct.

    First off, all 4 of those springs have the name number coils / turns (approx. 10-11). Perhaps the fronts look more packed because of the extra compression, but they are not.

    And, the # coils does not necessarily dictate stiffness by the comparison you suggest --- other factors matter. And, actually, given 2 springs made with the same material, section diameter & modulus, and coil diameter....... the greater the # coils = the stiffer spring.

    .
     
  12. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    Think again.
     
  13. Nielsk

    Nielsk Karting

    Dec 8, 2012
    179
    Central Florida
    #13 Nielsk, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    Interesting, some consensus... they are the correct shocks, this is a GT4. The front apparently requires the different stem length to clear the a arms, this is why it is a challenge to fit replacements for the original (NLA) units
    It was certainly not "bouncy" in the past, it was set up this way when I bought it and driven spiritedly for many years before that, but in keeping with other work I have found on the car it would not surprise me if this was some "mechanic's" bright idea...
    The factory spec on the front spring is 349mm, just about exactly how long the are (UN-compressed)
     
  14. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    Then I would say the spacers were added simply as a cheap and easy way to try to stiffen up the front suspension --- logical if you believe the car was "driven spiritedly" by the previous owner, as he may have found the stock setup was too mushy for that style of use.

    The proper way to do this, of course, would have been to use different springs with the desired characteristics.

    If the springs still meet the factory specs (and they have not been permanently deformed or fatigued from over-stressing), and the shocks are correct, you should have no issues simply taking out the spacers and being right back to OE configuration ----- assuming that is what you wish to do.
     
  15. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #15 finnerty, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    You are correct for small deflections, but it changes over longer extension / compression.
     
  16. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    There are variables in the coil construction which dictate the firmness and weight capacity. Same spring length and coil size can be different.
     
  17. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    Adding spacers will not make the suspension stiffer. They change the compressed height and preload of the spring on the shock, but with the car on it's wheels the height of the spring will be the same with or without the spacers, provided the weight of the front of the car is enough to overcome the preload on the spring.
    Only the ride height is changed by the spacers and if the ride height was correct with these springs and spacers. it will be too low when the spacers are removed.
    Spring rate is proportional to nr of coils, a spring with 10 active coils will be 10% softer than a spring with 9 active coils all other things being equal.
    Some springs are wound with some coils closer together, they will bind if the spring is compressed more and make for a progressive spring that gets harder when compressed, but this is not the case here.
     

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