Don't like the direction Ferrari is headed

Any Ferrari without the option of a gear lever and gated shifter scares me, my god the new porsche comes with a six speed standard. Electronics are great but it takes a real man that can properly shift. Driving home HWY 1 I shifted about every 10-20 seconds finally after 10 years feeling like I finally mastered the technique ( and yes it is hard to come by skill to do properly)! Letting a computer or machine do the work for you is obviously less work but maybe also less fulfilling.......................................

 

Jeep Wranglers are going to be coming with 6 speed manuals standard now... And soon, Ferrari's won't!

 

totally agree with you they have not made a proper car since 1996 f512m as i want to update to a newer car its going to be a lambo as i cant afford a F50

 

Right on about the size! The 360 is almost too huge to be a sports car.

Ferrari should make a smaller, lighter sports car. They should get rid of all of the electronic nanny stuff, including F1. It's needlessly complex, adds weight, and is a maintenance nightmare. Plus, it detracts from the driving experience, IMO.

After seeing the official pics, I still think the 430 looks awkward. I haven't compared the specs yet but it's probably even larger and heavier than the Modena! The 360 is a much more cohesive, better thought out design, elegant in its simplicity.

 

Regardless of your feeling about the F430, it's hard to argue with any business enterprise that has a customer base willing to get on a waiting list to buy your product. Global demand exceeds supply. Ya gotta be doing somthin' right....

$.02

 

I totally agree that Ferrari is fading away from the purist market. But I also agree that it is not doing something wrong for the company! Its cars are selling like carzy, its F1 competition is so superior to everyone, its related merchandises are so well sought out by younger generation, and finally its financial book is so fat now.

What they are doing wrong is that they should have at least one model dedicated to the loyal purists who love Ferrari the way they were. I love the 328 but would also love it even more if it were more comfortable. I don't mean comfortable in a sense of MB, but more like in a sense of an F355. IMO, the F355 is the last Ferrari with the right size and combination of performance and comfort.

The F430 is going to do one thing for sure, keeping the 360M price up!

Maybe they can come up with a new entry level V8 that will please the purists in a year or two.

 

Ferrari is listening to its customers. The 8 cylinder cars are the best selling and are what people are asking for. The F1 transmission makes you "like Schuie" and people want that.

My concern on the motor is not "does it have too much power", but "does it have enough". 500 hp used to be alot, now its as much as you get from a Mercedes sedan.

The only way Ferrari will change is if people stop buying (like the early 90's). Till then, they'll keep doing what they are doing. Because they are very successful at it.

As for Ferraris being too expensive, remember, the 8 cylinder cars have been selling more than MSRP. Just like a hot IPO that means the company is getting the short end of the stick. They'll price them at the highest point the market will bear. $200k isn't so bad when you consider that MB has 3 cars over $300k and one of them is over $400k.

 

You may not like Ferrari's direction, but there are a lot who do. Here's an excerpt that a friend sent me about a drive in a Maranello. Keep in mind that this guy has owned just about every type of Ferrari made from 4-Cam 275 GTBs to Daytonas to...

BTW, this is the same guy who almost brought a Porshce 907 to go vintage racing.

Point is, as Erik pointed out, Ferrari is building cars for its target market, mostly old farts like me. With production capped at 4,000 a year, why would Ferrari build cars that sell for under $200k?

Here's my guess as to their bidness plan:

Ferrari - $200k and up
Maser - $100k to $200k
Fiat/Alfa - $100k and below.

Thoughts?

Dale

 

Let's see...

It will fit on the back of a napkin while three guys are in bar in Italy over the summer, drinking camparis. Yep. That's it.

 

All very valid points, ferrari will do what there current clients are asking. I think the 430 is also a bit in the wrong direction as getting to close to there 12 section. Maybe thats the plan, to eventually dump the 12 program and do a 10 program like F1. Remember as long as theres a 3 yr waiting list they will not change. I think they could even get away with dropping the entire 12 program and pump up the 8 program to 550hp and add another 25% to the price with a few more production numbers to off set the 575 line. They might be able to even build a few more Enzos and slam another 25% in price in that as well and probably come out with better numbers. People would still pay for it.

 

Since when has Ferrari ever been an affordable car for the masses? Never. That's not their mission. It's meant to be a limited production car for a very small and exclusive group of individuals. "Affordable" Ferrari was a relative term even when the 206/246 and 308s arrived. They were still very expensive for their time... just like the new ones are today. Priced way out of reach for 99.5% of the population.

Regarding "NEW", this has always been the natural progression of F-Cars... 206->246, 308->328, 348->355, 360->430... call it new but basically increase the displacement, do some minor reskinning and squeeze a few more years out of production. The next V8 F-car truly WILL be a new car. BTW, I do agree with your assessment of the look of the 430.

 

I disagree. When production for a car is at 4,000 units, and its price is $200,000.00, there will not be any resale value. Give it 5 yrs, and it will be a $140,000.00 car. The entry level Ferrari should be priced around $140,000-$160,000.00. For $200,000.00 I want Exclusivisity. The Ferrari at $200,000.00 should be the start of the 12 cylinder Ferrari. I also believe that Maser. is not sexy enough. The inside is nice, lots of fun to drive, but the looks are generic (Monte Carlo?). Marketing was all wrong. Coupe is a 4 seater, and the convertable is a two seater. You just lost sales to Porsche. I'm really trying to bond with the Quatroporte, and I can't. I really want one, but the looks just don't blow me away. Maser. has to improve their styling to make it a success. I also think that they should focus on the 4 door market. That engine has Mercedes, Jaguar and BMW beat. If they are going to make the coupe a success, then it should be priced against the Jag XKR and the 911 ($85,000.00), not $100,000.00.
As for Fiat/Alfa, I just don't know. There is so much competition (BMW, Mercedes and even Chrysler!) in that $35,000-$50,000.00 market. You have to be really good. Acceleration and styling/reliability is a must! You really can't go over $50,000.00 for a Fiat/Alfa. Just won't sell. People associate those cars with cheaper cars. Similiar thought is what happened to VW with the Phaeton. I live on L.I. You see everything. I don't see any Phaetons's except in the VW parking lot!
In conclusion, an entry level Ferrari should be $140,000-$160,000. Just my opionion. When I was on the Auto Strada about 10 yrs ago, I rented a Fiat Punto convertable. Great car, never sold in the USA. I had it up to 110 (top speed). Then I hit the fuel cut-off.

 

While Ferrari's production is 4000 units, remember, this is world wide. The USA gets what, 25% of this number? Ferrari has stated that increases in production volume will go into new markets (Russia and China) and not into exisiting markets. There won't be much market saturation keeping "exclusivity" high.

As for depreciation, there is nothing new there. All modern Ferraris will depreciate. The prices of 360's will fall after a few years of the F430 being out. 348's and 355's are still depreciating.

They aren't going to discontinue the V12 line. There is still a good section of the market that wants a V12. There is a smaller section that is willing to pay even more for a V12 2+2 that has always depreciated like any other car.

 

Ferrari needs to revive the Dino line for us poor people and give us a small, lightweight 6 or 8 cylinder car that handles like an Elise. Make it about $100K and sell a lot of them! The ycould get production up by partnering with Fiat on construction, just like they did with the original Dino line.

Either that or I'm stuck with having to buy all my Ferraris used, which ain't so bad. I guess I can suffer and buy a 355 instead! ;-)

Birdman

 

Exactly! I posted on another thread that my Ferrari embarrasses my wife. She grew up in a blue collar background where only movie stars brought Ferraris. She still sees it as a sign of conspicuous consumption.

Sure, Ferrari introduced Frank Parker's "Dino line" (just kidding Frank) in the 70s to stay alive. No one is immune to the market place. But just like the Super Glide saved Harley's butt in the 70s, the Dinos saved Ferrari. However, Harley still makes the Electra Glide, and Ferrari still makes large GT cars.

You also need to keep in mind that Ferrari makes more profit from licensing than building cars. It is far more important to keep the movie star mystic alive than to keep a few car nuts happy.

DrTax

 

You have just described the testarossa from over a decade ago. Inflation over time = prices going up. It makes sense for the V8 to cost that much now. On average, prices double about every ten years. You can't live in 80s MSRPs any more. Soon, the V8 will be a 200K car and the V12 300K.

 

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think reintroducing the Dino line would be the death of Maserati. The market is having a hard enough time trying to accept those cars as it is.

 

the writing has been on the wall for awhile now

ferrari's are becoming like mercedes benz's

automatic trans gotta LMAO !

diablo is a cool car for the money though

 

I totally agree that the Maranello should have been a mid-engined V-12 from the start. I think that is one of the main reasons it does not sell as well as the 360 and gets its tail kicked in the depreciation category. If I wanted a front engined car, there are plenty to be had out there that are just as fast or faster for much less money. I used to own an NSX and there was something special about the balance of a mid-engined car not to mention the motor being right behind your ears. My front engined car is currently a heavily modified '97 Viper GTS. I prefer the looks and performance of this car over the Maranello's. Besides I was even able to get a factory extended warranty for 4 more years and 60K more miles for $1,800. Why can't Ferrari stand behind their products like this? I guess emotions defy reason which is why I will be taking delivery of a 360 spider this weekend.

 

Question: why should the v8 cars be relegated to "entry level" status? I see a trend that started with the 550/360 which is to make great cars across the line. Instead of having price points, they offer choices; it's not which-Ferrari-can-you-afford, but rather which-Ferrari-do-you-want. I don't think anyone will accuse the F40 or the 288 as being low end, so there is a historical precedent, and I personally think it's really novel marketing approach and befitting of who they are.

I agree that smaller and lighter is better when it comes to sports cars, but we aren't talking about Lotus, who founded their entire identity on light weight. Ferraris have pretty much always been fairly stout. Yet, they did just offer the 360 CS, so that should keep the club racers happy.

You are right about the weak dollar, I just read an article on how Ford’s PAG (Jaguar, Aston, Range) are posting huge losses due to the weak dollar. OTOH, Ferrari is in a unique position in that they don’t really have competition. Of course there are other exotics out there, but regardless of the other choices, there’s a long line of people who will only buy a Ferrari, and cost isn’t much of an issue. Therefore Ferrari can charge what they want, which is a good thing since they are the only profitable branch of FIAT and losing money trying to get Maserati on its feet, posting loses is not really an option right now. Unless you’d like to see Ferrari get sold off to VW or GM, which frankly would make me cry.

More specific to the product, they are packing a lot of technology into these cars, far more than 20 or even 10 years ago. Wind tunnel development, aluminum chassis, F1 trannies, electronic differentials and of course state of the art motors. Since these are low volume production cars, that means high price in order to recoup R&D costs.

Ferrari would have been crucified by the entire automotive world had they not anted up to the gauntlet thrown down by the other manufacturers. As it is, the brand new Ferrari will have less power than it's nearest competitors (Gallardo and Ford GT), as well as a few BMW and Mercedes sedans. If anything they ARE adhering to your wishes by merely matching the outputs of today's cars, rather than playing a game of one-upmanship.

Isn't the Enzo an "ultra-exotic and ultra-fast... mid-engined 12-cylinder Ferrari?" It would be nice to see a 21st century Testarossa. But they made a choice to get back to their roots from the 1960s rather than the Ferrari 1980s. It seems like most people who drive the front engine v12s absolutely love them. As for the 612, I don’t understand why so many people have a problem with the v12 2+2s. It is simply another choice, you don’t have to buy it… what’s wrong with there being another Ferrari model? They have always offered these cars, and there are Ferrari clients who demand them, nothing wrong with keeping a core part of your customer base happy. Again, it’s supposed to be a brilliant car, where’s the harm in that?

They made that car 10 years ago-- and the 355 was perfect for it’s time. Now Ferrari is boldly moving into the 21st century, and it’s going to be a great ride.

 

I think most car makers are moving to BIGGER w/ MORE POWER, comfortable, & more costly when they introduce the new models. Today's Corrolla was Camry 15 years ago, for example. So that's natural progression.

Price-wise, each makers target different consumers for Ferrari, Maserati, & Fiat, so I shouldn't expect Maserati price for Ferrari. (although Maser's coming out w/ expensive super-car, it is still cheaper than Enzo, right?) Erik's point is well-taken.

I don't understand the term "riced-out". What does it mean? Someone commented F430 as riced-out 360. I like both F430 & 360, but I prefer F430 for the look. I wouldn't buy the first year model though...

 

Dale, I never thought about that. Is that common knowledge?

I wonder what % is cars vs licensing.

Wonder what Harley's %ages are?

 

The new $42k Lotus is an interesting car.

Great chassis + light weight = performance