Hi all, I recently got a 348 and within a few days, I've had the dreaded 'door dancing'.. I believe this was self inflicted (at least in part) as I pushed the drivers side stalk down whilst in the car. I didn't realise there was an electronic control in the centre console! It may be pure coincidence, and this was going to happen anyway... So, diagnostics and findings so far; Locking the drivers door with the key stops the constant opening/closing. Removing the battery and reconnecting didn’t work Stripped the drivers door to check everything and grease all the mechanisms etc. Removed the 15amp fuse from the passengers footwell to see if I could manually open the door without it going up and down constantly Tried pressing the centre console buttons and trying the door from both the inside and outside Put the passengers side window down, and used a very strong coat hanger bent a tight bend on the end. Even with a lot of force, I’m unable to pull the stalk up enough to get the door to pop Tried banging around the latch area from the outside whilst trying the button and inside door handle, a lot.. I’m honestly out of suggestions at this point, as I simply can NOT get the passengers door open. If I could, I might be able to at least inspect properly inside. It almost feels like the cable is too tight, not allowing the stalk to go fully up. I did manage to get some videos, which might better demonstrate how things look, and what is/was going on. Links below… After many hours of struggling, I’ve ended up leaving it in bits, in hope that someone can point out what I need to do. I even thought about taking the passenger doors side strakes off, but then I was told that I couldn't, because I cannot remove that sides door card to get to the sodding bolts at the front of the door. I can easily remove the 4 allen bolts on the outside. As it happens, I don't believe I'd be able to do much with the side strakes off anyway, so I'm told. – Drivers door (with fuses and electrical connectors in place) – Drivers door electrical connectors connected, showing passengers side not opening – Passengers side, showing what I believe to be the lock in what I THINK should be the open position (I tried hooking both pieces here and pulling up, but not able to move either of them) – Showing what happens when you push the outside door lock button in. On the drivers side, the metal tab retracts when you let the button back out.
If you disconnect the battery and try to unlock the passenger door with the key what happens. Does the door lock knob move up and stay up? If it does, did you try opening the door then? With the battery disconnected, can you move the door lock knob up and down?
I tried disconnecting the battery in the first instance, same thing. The stalk on the passengers side mechanically drops when opened either manually by pulling it up, or via the key. The door lock knob moves up and down, but it feels like it doesn't go all the way up.
Have you tried, while the battery is disconnected, to hold the knob firmly up with your fingers while trying to open the door from inside or from outside. Have you tried the same while holding the knob up with the key?
I have, still the same I have also removed the door locking fuse in the passengers footwell (the 15amper) which technically does the same thing. If you watch one of the vids above, you'll see that when I turn the key, it SHOULD stay up, but it drops back down. That isn't due to electrical current, that's just under its own weight.
Let's run over the basics to see if we an find a clue: Here's a photo of the lock in the unlocked position: Image Unavailable, Please Login When you push down on the button (stalk), it tries to move the rod on the right of the photo downwards (but it's fighting other parts of the locking mechanism. The mechanism is not a pivot, but a slider. When the slider moves under normal circumstances, say, with the key, the action mechanically extends the motorised actuator plunger. At around 2/3rds of motion, a microswitch inside the motor actuator is triggered and the system assits with the downwards motion by electrically extending the actuator. The passenger's door is also commanded locked (electrically). You can probably still lock the door without electrical assist, but it is difficult. Do you mean the button/stalk drops down when you unlock the door? I'm trying to figure out what keeps the button up. I assume it's a combination of friction from the geared mechanical internals of the motor actuator and key barrel friction which normally supports the weight of the button and the slider... or perhaps part of the latch mechanism. Note that you can't damage the actuator by moving it forcefully. However, as these actuators age, the gears can crumble and cause the actuator not to move properly. Does the motor actuator plunger physically extend to the locked position when you lock the door with the key? I'm not sure if you forcing the button down is the cause of this issue. In the first video are you trying to unlock the door? The actuator is already in the unlocked position. When you try to lock the door with the key, is the button/stalk also moving down (initially)? In the second video, with the driver's door electrics disconnected, the Door ECU no longer receives an earth signal from the driver's actuator's internal position sensor in either the extended or the retracted position, so that may be confusing the system... or the issue may actually be with the passenger doorlock Other possible causes: Unfortunately, the connector wiring at the door hinge is very fragile and tends to break causing all kinds of issues. Image Unavailable, Please Login If you open the door and trigger the doorlatch mechanically to the latched position (with a screwdriver or similar). Does the key unlocking behaviour change when you shake the door wiring harness?
As pushing the door button doesn't backdrive the interior handle, I'm not sure if a stuck cable would affect the button operation (???). The issue would have to be in the latch assembly itself (or the linkage between the button and the latch assembly).
Too many words to read but if locks are dancing that happens when the mechanism binds and the weak motors cannot move to the position needed for sensor to say I'm open or closed. Locks confuse and dance. Try disconnecting motor from linkage and get functional locking at motor level albeit unhooked. If still dance get new motor. If dance solved reconnect linkage so it is passive and does not overpower the motor. Make sure electrical connections are clean in door
You may still have difficulties with actuator plunger ~ door latch interference. If so, you will have to remove the actuator to test it. Image Unavailable, Please Login I see new actuators are not overly expensive from Eurospares https://www.eurospares.co.uk/Ferrari/348/348_(2.7_Motronic)/PartDiagrams/120/Doors_-_Opening_Control_and_Hinges?ref=034 +VAT, of course I wouldn't go aftermarket. I tried compare one aftermarket brand with the OEM version and the internal switch trigger point was different. I can't remember if the mounting holes or plunger throw were different.
In your second video, it appears that the door lock knob does not drop down by its own weight (not really possible anyway) but is pulled down by the door locking motor. You need to make sure there is no power to the motor before you attempt manual unlocking. If the door opening push-knob freely goes in when pressed, it means that the lock mechanism is in the "locked" position.
You're right, that's the wrong video, sorry. Since that video, I have removed the 15a fuse that controls door locking (also tried battery did connected) and the same thing happens, just not as rapidly. The stalk goes up, but then it falls under its own weight, or at best stays up a short while then drops. It does seem very coincidental that it happened since I pushed down the driver's stalk (I'll never do that again..) and it's just out things out of sync. This might help diagnostics, but now the window motor also won't go down on the driver's side! It went down about 2cm and then stopped. Both issues at the same time seems HIGHLY unlikely!
The problem I have, is that I cannot get the passengers side open to do what you've suggested, as I can't get the door cards off whilst it's shut due to the screws being side mounted on the door.
It is possible that the linkage that moves the door opening tab on the lock mechanism has disconnected itself so the door locking knob, or the key, cannot move the door opening tab into position where the push-button can actuate it. If you can see the door locking mechanism from above (when the window is down) try to somehow catch the plate that is carrying the door opening tab and pull it up (power to the lock off). Door push-button and door opening tab: Image Unavailable, Please Login Plate carrying the door opening tab (moves up and down to unlock and lock): Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Luke I'm afraid it's not the best video in the world, but I hope this gives you some idea of how the mechanism works. The first 15 seconds show the operation when using the internal door pull, and the last 15 seconds shows what happens when you are pressing the button from the outside (you can see the plunger moving the lever).
Cheers Jeff, appreciate that So with the door locked OR unlocked, should that bronze tab go back and forth, following the push button? On the passengers side, the pivot is in the open position constantly, as per the screenshot attached Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm afraid I can't quite remember, as I made that video years ago! LOL I remember disassembling everything and lubricating all the moving parts I could access. There was also the added complication that there is a small part inside the lock barrel that breaks and causes problems, too, but you can buy them from Hills Engineering. Whereabouts in the UK are you? If you close enough, I can give you a hand if you wish Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have reached out to Hills tech to see if they have a clue, and possibly buy some parts required. If that ends up being a dead end, I might just take you up on that!
Just realised I was wrong in my previous post about what part of the lock mechanism is moved when locking and unlocking it. This picture shows which part is moved up and down to enable or disable the actuation of the door opening tab by the door push-button: Image Unavailable, Please Login If the door lock motor (while cycling up-down) still operates the part marked with the blue arrows, I would also try the following "procedure" (power connected to the door lock): keep you thumb on the push-button; turn the key to "unlock" and quickly press the push-button while the knob is still up.
