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dot 5.1 and what it can do to brake pipes!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Blazerfrazer, Sep 8, 2006.

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  1. Blazerfrazer

    Blazerfrazer Karting

    May 16, 2006
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    Frazer Smith
    #1 Blazerfrazer, Sep 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi All. help needed... does anybody know about brake fluid 5.1 and what pipe should be used? I recently (2 months ago )changed on my 348 the pipes that feed the clutch master and brake pump from the main resivoire. these are just gravity feed pipes that have no pressure. I used high quality fuel pipe thinking that this would be ok but as you can see from the picture the 5.1 fluid had sweated through! I could not believe my eyes when I saw it, it looks like an aircon pipe that is cold which has condensation on the outside. this is Defiantly NOT condensation, the car has been sat in a warm garage and it is summer here in England at the moment. I had some spare pipe left over from when I replaced it and compared the two. the pipe on the car which has sweated through is defiantly easier to squeeze the new off cut I have to compare it with.Is there a special type of pipe required for the job? does anybody know what this type of pipe is called so this I know what to ask for. the pipe I used is made by GATES and has written on the side " Multi Fuel Gates Auto Master 8mm Multi Carburant "
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  2. opencollector

    opencollector Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2005
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    #2 opencollector, Sep 8, 2006
    Brake fluid will dissolve most fuel hoses. You need a hose designed specifically to handle brake fluid.

    Here in the U.S., I buy my brake fluid hose from the VW parts counter. It's covered in a distinctive blue cloth braid.
     
  3. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    #3 gothspeed, Sep 8, 2006
    Yes that german blue hose is great! I used it on my p-car!
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #4 Rifledriver, Sep 8, 2006
    Its fuel hose. Thats why it says fuel on it.

    Your post should say "Look what brake fluid does to fuel hose".

    It won't do that if you use brake hose.
     
  5. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #5 racerboy9, Sep 8, 2006
    I used an original, correct part number "in the bag" Fiat/Lancia clear brake fluid reservoir hose on my Stratos and it sweats a little too! ATE blue fluid was used. Not as bad as the one in the pics but a little beading here and there.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 Rifledriver, Sep 8, 2006
    Maybe not real brake hose. Ferrari had several recalls for installation of the wrong hose. Something went wrong in the supply chain. Same outfit, possibly same problem.

    Brake fluid hose will have the markings "EPDM".
    If it does not say that, it is not for brakefluid.


    The cheapest lowest priced water hose is closer to the formula for brake fluid hose than anything else. Rubber for gas is not compatible for brakefluid and rubber for brake fluid will not tolerate gas.
     
  7. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #7 smg2, Sep 8, 2006
    Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer

    also used in roofing
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 Rifledriver, Sep 8, 2006
    Yea, what he said.
     
  9. Blazerfrazer

    Blazerfrazer Karting

    May 16, 2006
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    Frazer Smith
    #9 Blazerfrazer, Sep 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Rifledriver for trying to make me look stupid. I did not realise, I like many of us are learning all the time.....
    that's why I post here in search of information, I went to several hose retailers and none of them knew of any specific hose. I took advice and purchased the best quality hose they had in stock. Anyway thanks guys for the information, after what you said about the VW pipe, I made further inquires and found a supplier in the UK that had some hose for this application, I mailed ordered it up and look what came through...... look its blue, and braded!! cool it must be the same stuff ! the company is called ' Think Automotive Ltd ' and if anybody decides to use them in the UK, I found then helpful and reliable, the Hose came next day. It doesn't have EPDM on the side so does this mean I should not use it then? it says COHLINE and a load of numbers that can be seen in the picture. If what ' Rifledriver ' is saying is true then i need to contact them to check?
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  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 Rifledriver, Sep 10, 2006
    The header of your thread said "Brake pipes"

    I wanted to be sure it was understood by observers that it was not "Brake pipe. It was not an attempt to make you look stupid.


    Many parts counter people have no idea that water, fuel and brake hose are distinctly different and are not interchangeable. Your dilemma is common.


    The hose in your picture looks black. I understand some Digital pictures do not do color well but it sure looks like fuel hose to me. The German blue hose I am familiar with is very blue, light to medium blue and is usually 8mm.
     
  11. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
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    #11 Fred2, Sep 11, 2006
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  12. Blazerfrazer

    Blazerfrazer Karting

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    Frazer Smith
    #12 Blazerfrazer, Sep 12, 2006
  13. Blazerfrazer

    Blazerfrazer Karting

    May 16, 2006
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    South Coast England
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    Frazer Smith
    #13 Blazerfrazer, Sep 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now that I understand that brake fluid (5.1) is nasty aggressive stuff and after what I have seen it do my car, I am wondering about the other parts of the brakes like the insides of brake hoses , O rings in the master and pump, the calliper seals etc. The car ( 348 ) as I am sure most of you know was built with the best fluid available at the time before 5.1 was around and they recommended dot 4 ultra. now that I have to drain the system to replace my pipe, should I revert back to what was recommended. The other thing to consider is that although I will be draining it best I can, there will always be some remainder in the system which will mix. If anybody can confirm that the 5.1 wont violate ( I like that word ) my other rubber parts of the system then I will keep with 5.1. If not I might have to face a full strip down to avoid mix contamination. You may think I am a little paranoid of mixing fluid but look at the inside of my master last time I stripped it out! although I think this may have been done years before I hade the car with a silicone based brake fluid mixed with dot rather than dot mixed with dot. What do you think?
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  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 Rifledriver, Sep 13, 2006
    5.1 is no more nasty or aggressive than DOT3 or 4. The basic fluid is the same. Only 5 is made from different base stock (silicone) and as I understand it, it was never approved for use in Europe due to failing the compressability tests of the TUV. I do not know if that applied to the UK or not.

    5.1 spec fluid really only differs from DOT 4 in that it has a lower viscosity at the request of the makers of some ABS systems as it was felt that under some conditions the ABS portion of the system would operate better with the thinner fluid.

    Any system or material that has been designed for use with DOT 4 fluid will be compatible with DOT5.1.

    And in fact except in very cold climates DOT 4 will work very well in place of 5.1.
     

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