Downshifting

I don't downshift often because I see it as unnecessary wear and tear on the gearbox and differential. TRs gearboxes are a known trouble spot, and I wan't to keep mine in decent shape as long as possible. But what does help if you must downshift is learning to blip the throttle to match the revs to the next lower gear your going into. I find that with some practice I can do it very smoothly. But again, my point of view is it's much cheaper to wear out the brake pads & rotors then rebuilding or upgrading the transmission. Just my two cents, and hardly worth that much.

 

Double clutch the downshifts. MUCH easier on the syncros.

 

If you can double de-clutch, you don't even need synchros!

1) clutch goes in, back off throttle
2) shift to neutral
3) clutch comes out
4) big dose of throttle, then back off
5) clutch goes in
6) snick into gear
7) clutch comes out

With practice this doesn't even take any more time than a normal shift.

 

What about the underlying problem? I think you should be able to do a straight downshift OK.

 

From my experience Ferraris much prefer being double clutched, it will also save wear & tear on the clutch & trans

 

That is a rediculous attitude. Might as well never start the engine too as it may wear out.

Ferraris (I believe) do not take kindly to being pussied about, thus you guys sound like you are being too cautious with the gear change. Remember you are the boss, I nice big blip and a confident double-d-clutch and I bet all will be okay.

Popping into neutral is a dangerous thing to do, because if you suddenly need power to move out of harms way ... you haven't got it.

Plus a big part of the driving experience (at least to me) is gear changing and down shifts with the blip are grin making ...

Pete

 

That is ok, but shouldn't the car be able to downshift without a double cluth without grinding?

 

The Euro 1985 308GTS Qv shifts smooth up AND down (the usual 2nd gear from dead cold exception here). Great shift up, great shifts down, awesome shifts everwhere around

Fluid used: Amsoil 70-90 Synth

 

I have never had a problem downshifting in either of my cars - That is why I was curious to see if it was a problem with the car mentioned.

 

Agreed, maybe something needs attending to or ???

 

What's with this "double clutch" idea? When the clutch is depressed (that is, pressed to the floor), the car is in neutral already, so you don't need to shift the car into neutral to raise the revs. Only a single action of the clutch is necessary.

I say,

1) back off throttle, clutch goes in
2) raise revs to appropriate engine speed--that is, raise the RPMs to the higher engine speed (RPM), whatever it is, at which the current speed of the wheels will spin the engine in the lower gear
3) shift into appropriate gear, right through neutral if necessary
4) clutch comes out while applying throttle to accelerate

Any disagreement?

 

I'm sorry, 2 and 3 should appear in reverse order.

1) back off throttle, clutch goes in
2) shift into appropriate gear, right through neutral if necessary
3) raise revs to appropriate engine speed--that is, raise the RPMs to the higher engine speed (RPM), whatever it is, at which the current speed of the wheels will spin the engine in the lower gear
4) clutch comes out while applying throttle to accelerate

 

Mitch Alsup said:

If you can double de-clutch, you don't even need synchros!

1) clutch goes in, back off throttle
2) shift to neutral
3) clutch comes out
4) big dose of throttle, then back off
5) clutch goes in
6) snick into gear
7) clutch comes out

With practice this doesn't even take any more time than a normal shift.


Then 348sstb said:

Mitch's approach is correct for cars without synchromesh or with weak synchros. The point of releasing the clutch pedal while in neutral and then blipping the throttle is to raise the speed of the transmission gears before de-clutching and completing the gear change.

For a car with good synchros, that part is unnecessary since the synchros will take care of matching the gear sets. The purpose of the throttle blip in those cases is to raise the engine revs before selecting the lower gear, which reduces the shock on the transmission and drivetrain.

John

 

Ive never had a problem downshifting my 512TR or 328GTS . Just blip the throttle to match the revs. takes some practice. at least it did for me. Downshifting and blipping the throttle is very rewarding IMO and should be any Ferrari owners goal to do it correctly. I enjoy the concentration involved. Dont be afraid of it. so blip-blip-blip your way into Ferrari bliss my friend.
and you can double clutch quickly with practice.

 

The reason for double clutching is that the gears in the trans are spinning faster than the engine. When you blip the throttle you cause the RPM in the engine & trans to match closer which allows the parts to mesh better.

The trans must be out of gear with the clutch pedal up for the double clutch to work

 

Could someone please explain to me why 308 gearboxes have to warm up first before shifting from 1st to 2nd?It doesnt bother me that much and have gotten used to it but am just curious.Can the "problem" be fixed or is it just part of the charm? Thanks in advance

 

Hello pks "Pete": I'm sorry if you consider my attitude to be too conservative or "rediculous" as you put it. I DO DOWNSHIFT from time to time, but not all the time. I do thrash on my TR occasionally, and I feel that if I baby the car at the appropriate times it is more apt to hold up for those moments when I do whip on it. This is one of those subjects where there is not just one correct answer. We all have our driving style. Perhaps if I had a different Ferrari I may drive it differently. But I stand by my reasons previously stated for Testarossas in particular.

 

Besides the discussion about double clutching for downshifts, there may well be some mechanical issues with your car. From experience, it is found that proper alignment of the shift rod makes a huge difference in some cases, as even a 1mm mis-alignment can result in a bulky shifting gearbox. If the gearbox lube/oil has not been changed in a while, or is not filled with one of the new modern synthetic gear oils, then a fluid change is recommended. Lastly, sometimes I have seen that the clutch line has some air in it and needs to be bled/purged, and if this is the case, the clutch won't completely dis-engage making downshifts a rather "sticky" process, but up-shifts are not effected as much. If there is air in the clutch line, the problem of shifting becomes more pronounced the hotter, or more running time the engine goes through, as the air in the line will expand.

Check these things first, and if everything is AOK, then some throttle blipping upon downshifting needs to be exercised. OF course, the worst thing would be worn synchros from the previous owner(s) driving style.

 

Its part of the charm If it really bothers you, you can get an electric warmer & plug it into an outlet 1 hour before you leave. Should warm it up

On 308s the transmission forks can easily fall out of alignment causing false neutrals when you want to shift into a gear. Never experienced that with the 512TR though

 

Hehe.... I KNEW I'd stir up a bit of a hornet's nest mentioning double clutching. Happens every time this subject comes up.

 

What you miss is that when the clutch in 'in' and the shifter is between gears nothing is causing the mainshaft in the transmission to turn. If will spin down due to friction.

When you release the clutch with the shifter in neutral, the engine now controls the speed of the mainshaft. A big dose of throttle brings this up to the correct speed. Then clutch in, shift, clutch out. Only wiht the mainshaft at the correct speed can the dogs be engaged without grinding.

The synchros simply bring the mainshaft up to speed (while wearing out). But you can do this with the clutch and throttle instead.

 

Double DE-clutching was the rule of the day years ago, but gearboxes have improved substantially since the 1950s and 60s. I still do it, as it became a habit. It DOES save wear on the gearbox. My stepdaughter never got the hang of it, but at least she blips the throttle just as she starts to push the clutch in when downshifting.