Driver predictions for 2017

I just love to see it when the elton fans who usually crow over any statistics showing that Elton is good in their eyes are suddenly warning against reading into any statistics that don't cos 'you shouldn't rely on subjective statistics'. Hilarious, Michael would've slaughtered Elton in his prime, and you all know it. While Elton would be busy switching off the wrong buttons on his wheel Michael would've lapped the one trick pony

 

Schumi built the team alongside Brawn and Todt. Hammy doesn't do 'teamwork', it's all about him, his perceived slights and his generally insecure personality. A brilliant driver, but not so much a person. Sad, he could have contributed so much more to sport and society. Instead he's too interested in his next Hollywood party and what tattoo to add to his collection....

 

I think JB is a very strong driver and due a bit of respect others think he does not deserve. His performance against LH at Mclaren speaks volumes about JB and his talent. LH in that comparison is hardly the mega dominant talent the press would like us to believe. Appears he and JB are about equal.

 

Or that he's a very good driver in a world beating car in which neither LH or NR had a hand in developing since it was a dominant winner out of the box three years running-which it was.

 

Talented yes in the right car. He has never done what FA does with a lesser car. Period. Thats the reference for me. No one on the grid gets more out of a car than FA. LH is great but his greatness is very much tied to a good car. Kimi and Vettel and LH have it appears to me somewhat smaller optimal operating limits compared to FA's.

 

That's total nonsense. Just because the car is dominant does not mean it requires no driver input to develop it to maximum potential. Replace Hamilton and Rosberg with two lousy drivers early in development and it is a much different story. Even if they say nothing, their data still paints a vivid picture for engineers on which to make adjustments.

 

Talent isn't car dependent. How do you explain his performance in spec series? Some pretty amazing drives.

FA could definitely be superior. I personally find it hard to compare F1 drivers in different F1 cars - especially across formula changes.

 

I agree with you there.

It can only be subjective, not objective.

 

+1

You have to be a very good driver to get the most of an excellent car.

It's a fallacy to pretend that anyone on the grid could jump in a Mercedes and match Hamilton or Rosberg. Maybe 4 or 5 could, but the rest would struggle, IMO.

 

We agree to disagree. It's your opinion and your entitled to it-even if it's wrong!

Benz got it VERY RIGHT out of the box and the rules the testing ban/engine token farce insured their superiority. Hammy and Rosberg had no seat time in the cars prior to the first tests of 2014 and the excellence of the car was apparent from day one. They showed up and won. Kudos to Benz For building such a world beater.

 

It isn't a question of matching hammy or Rosberg-it's a question of beating the other teams. Do you think hammy in a Williams would outscore bottas in the Benz over the course of a year?

 

Maybe not match them, but you could put Nasr and Ericsson in the Merc any one of the last 3 years and one of em would easily win the WDC

 

...and then they provided no feedback and made no setup adjustments for 3 years? Okydoky.

The token system definitely hurt other teams, but it's not as though Merc did not use all of their tokens and constantly tune the setup. If they had just left the car as is, RB and Ferrari would have caught them.

 

of course they made adjustments but their car was so superior out of the box they started at a much higher level than everyone else, and their superiority was due to their excellent technical staff on both the pu and the suspension fronts. even the way they heated the tires was technology run amok.

Devious dogs ? Mercedes tire tactics | Formula 1 (F1). News

 

Personally, I doubt that very much; but it's only my opinion.

If it was that easy to pick an average GP2 pay-in driver and put him in the best car to win WDC, I am wondering why teams like Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull only recruit experienced F1 drivers and pay them lots of money.

It doesn't make sense.

 

Because they are the best and they can afford it. At this level the best drivers are .2 to .3 quicker than an average driver - if that. Everyone in F1 is extremely good or they wouldn't be there.

So plug a Manor driver into a Merc that is .6 to 1 sec a lap quicker than the rest and walk to a WDC. I don't think you quite grasp just how dominant those cars have been the last 3 years. Do you really think Hamilton or Rosberg are that much better than Vettel, Ricciardo, etc? Would Hamilton win a WDC in a Ferrari last year? He wouldn't even come close. Wouldn't have a prayer. Any driver in the field could grab a WDC in a Merc last year and do it easily.

 

Mercedes enjoyed (enjoys? lets ****ing hope not) such a huge advantage over the rest, they could've won the last 3 championships with a pair of monkeys.

Such a massive advantage over the very best next competitor is extremely rare (and actually unheard off, this is the largest ever gap over the next best car ever before in F1).

Top teams aren't going to bet that their car is guaranteed to be so much faster, so they want the very best drivers to pilot their cars to get even more out of the car, something an unproven guy straight from GP2 may not be able to do.

Had Red Bull employed Haryanto and Palmer for the last season, they wouldn't have finished 2nd.

 

Right now!
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I personally don't think so.

Only 5 or 6 drivers MAY have, but not anyone in the field.

I don't see Palmer, Ericson, Nasr, Wehrlein, Maldonado and some others being able to do that.

It takes more than having a fast car to win constantly like the Mercedes duo did over 3 years.

But here again, it's only my opinion.

 

Thanks you, you confirm my opinion.

If Mercedes was so confident any "monkey" could win in their cars, I don't think they would splash $ millions on drivers.

Probably they would have selected Wehrlein to replace Rosberg, and they may even have recruited Stroll too !!!

 

+1

Though Vettel IMO shouldn't be underestimated either. His win in a STR is backed up by several high placed finishes and runnings in the top 3 before the car failed him or taken out (notably Fuji 2007, when he crashed from 3rd into Webber behind the SC but ultimately LH was at fault for driving like a ****ing idiot).

 

I disagree.
I believe Nasr and Ericsson would have diced it out for the WDC.
You have the strongest driver possible because you will need them when it counts.

It didn't count this year but when you pump 100s of Millions of Pounds into your racing effort you don't want to take chances. No one can predict how long Mercedes' dominance would have lasted. Every year Melbourne gives the first indication. But that's too late to change your line up. You don't want to lose the WDC/WCC because you safe a bunch of millions on drivers.

 

No, I haven't.

How enormous of a lawsuit do you think it would be if Mercedes booted both their drivers out after the first race of the season because their car was so much quicker than the rest? The answer is simple: Far larger than any money saved by hiring two monkeys.

There are no guarantees on how fast your car truly is. However, there are educated guesses. That's how they lured Hamilton in: They knew they very likely had a very good car for the 2014 season, having worked on it for a long time, with an enormous budget with some of the best names in the business. They had a lot of the data customer teams didn't yet have (such as Mclaren).

Mercedes is less confident for the coming season, otherwise they would've hired Wehrlein.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. IMO the spread between the best drivers and guys at the back is much smaller than you think and the Mercedes was much more dominant than you think.

 

I think Mansell has it right when he said - there are a group of drivers who, in the right car could take the title -

That group is obvious but we are not sure about others who have the talent, but not the right car. This year we will see if Bottas is in that group.