just got new shoes on the old girl...it seems that 9 year old tires work not so good....new michelin destiny's are unbelievable..also have a '84 BBi which is antiquated as well, but just can't do the "newer" thing...tried many times as 550's are getting in the 60's and very tempting, but for me, a C/4 is on the horizon... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Dale There are already photos on FChat of our drives. A recent good one has photos here. Note the owners' attire. That gives you an idea how relaxed these drives are. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239181&highlight=lowe and another one last year. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180254&highlight=lowe&page=5 Enjoy. If you want I can email you the drive instructions which show how we organise these drives. These are really not for the internet as they have people's phone numbers etc.. John
Molto molto well put! In Florida a few years ago I drove a Lancia Beta, the basic one from the early seventies. There was nothing good about it: slow, vague handling in fact everything about was so outdated, lame and clumsy that you had to really drive it and in fact it made me smile. To mention the Nurburgring Nordschleife again (which as you know is open to the public and has become a madhouse) the most fun I had there was not when I drove a 355 summer 1995 (I was with the owner and did not really push out of respect of course) but when I did many laps in a Peugeot station wagon summer 1985: I had it four wheel drifting all the time on its skinny tires that was VERY satisfying! best regards, Marc
Marc, Although I love living in SW FL I am suffering from the same malady you endured..lousy roads. I moved from northern DE/se PA which did have nice roads and pretty scenery. Now I have to go 900 miles to NC mtns to find good roads to drive. Last year we organized an event in Asheville NC with an early morning group drive on the Blue Ridge Parkway and other great roads. I was driving my GTC and chasing the modern cars. Although I was the only one that was working hard I probably had the most fun. Sure the 430s and 575s could dust me on the straights, but I caught them out of the corners. It took driving at or near the limits of the 330 engine, brakes and tires [and me] while the new Fcars were not near theirs. But I guess effort made up for some of the diff. I have owned and driven many Fcars for 30+ yrs including many vintage. Cars I have spent a lot of time in include a Queen, [3]C/4s, 500 SF, Daytona, Dino, [2]330 GTCs and GTS, BB, BBi, 288, 328, 348, 355, 360, 550, 575, SA. [sadly no 275 Bs in the equation] Of all of these great opportunities I found the GTC provides the best all round experience. Good power, right size, constant feedback, discernable limits, great visibility, comfortable cockpit, balance...all the right sounds, smells....the list goes on. As others have clearly pointed out just the fact that it takes more driver involvement it what keeps these vintage cars in my garage. Right now I guess I am a bit of a chameleon with a 575 SA siting next to a Dino, GTC and C/4. However living in FL a real a/c is necessity. And the SA does offer top down blue skies enjoyment. Oh yea... the SA is the only Fcar my wife wants to ride in. [After 30 yrs of marraige I have learned a few things.] Right now my GTC is in for a full engine rebuild. My goal is to ship it to Italy to do the Giro di Sicilia [if Mr G will have me]. Thereafter drive some of the Miglia Miglia route. Maybe get some drive time on the Swiss Alp twisties too. Onno and Malcomb's pics are inspiring me to make this trek. Hope to do this next year. Sure us vintage guys get strange looks from the 360/430 red/tan spyder crowd. I guess we are cut a bit differently. But isn't it great to know that whatever camp your are in we are all fortunate enough to have this discussion. Vintage or modern they are all great experiences. ciao from the other Naples
Thank you for your very nice post Steve: I had heard about you when living in South Florida but don't think we ever met: did you not use to live in Plantation or somewhere in south east Florida? In any case yes any fun I had on the road in the US -except for flat out acceleration runs in the Fort Lauderdale tunnel or my top speed runs in the Everglades on a road I won't divulge (but which you probably know: it was of course not an animal crossing zone I love nature too much to have tried it there) and one 22 minute run from Key Largo to Homestead on card sound road in the Khamsin (it was my 40th birthday after all!)- took place an airplane flight away from south Florida....but then again without hurricanes and with hilly roads it would have been too close to paradise! Just tonight I took a two hour drive on fabulous roads here in Burgundy and stopped on a 3000 foot high viewing platform: hills as far as the eye could see...and almost no traffic: I only had to pass about 4 cars even though I was pushing: can't complain best regards, Marc
Ah - got a soft spot for those... Perhaps I'll drive one before my 40th (better hurry up - 9 months to go!) Onno
As many others have said: tall, skinny tires, wobbly wire wheels, no power steering, weak clutch, long hood in front of you, bumpy suspension, oil and gas smells permeating your clothes, how could there be anything more fun to do. I think that speaking in generalities, us old guys like to walter mitty more and be a part of the car rather than feeling like we are part of a video game. That is not to criticize modern cars at all. I am amazed at how sophisticated new cars have become but I fear that there has become a detachment between car and driver.
Much has been written here about driving these machines, but another pleasure in the drive for some of us is the added joy of seeing our "wrench time" in the machines we drive. The simple pleasures of getting some bit right and feeling the differnce in performance on a twisty or a long straight away is an added bonus. The sheer fun of getting to know the inner workings of my cars or my friends is another. Of those the oldest Ferrari I have had the priviledge to wrench on was an even numbered 1954, the newest was an odd numbered 1976, in each the knowledge that we were only borrowing these cars from a generation yet born makes it all the more special. M
carb Ferrari 308s : they feel different. the seats. the smell of the leather. the 70s aircraft look of the knobs and controls. turn the key on. tick, tick tick as the carbs prime. two taps on the throttle. keep it pushed in just a bit, to let in more air. turn the key to start., and listen to the whir , cough,... rattle, spit of the carbs as she wakes up and stretches. you can hear and feel the car change as she warms up. smooth idle, even vibe, steady gauges. smooth................... gauges move off the pegs a bit. you are now ready to back out of the garage. steady as she goes as the temps need to come up. skip 2nd for third, just to take it easy. the induction sounds, the carbs, the sport exhaust. a carb Ferrari is on the roads. even at 45 mph, its still brings goose bumps, and smiles. injected 308 QV : no drama. different seats, but still Ferrari. slightly different leather smell. still Ferrari. a bit more modern interior, but still a direct descendant from the carb 308s that have preceded its place on the assembly line. turn the key. she is awake. smooth idle, steady gauges. let her warm up easy on the drive, as you are already moving now. Jalpa / Uraco : crazy look. 70s style, even on the Jalpa. by 70's i mean in a good way. the Uracco has a crazy dash layout. you would think you are in a kids backyard, in a mock up of a spaceship. zany control layout. strange driving position. its a Lamborghini, and you have a stupid , silly smile on your face. you finally put the key in. tick bump, tick bump, tick bump, as the fuel pump primes the carbs. no way this is a Ferrari. EVERYTHING is different. two squirts on the gas, and turn the key. bark, cough, whammo. its running! let her warm up a bit..... little v8 Lambos MUST BE REVED to make the cars move. i swear all of them rattle and cough, but they do love to rev and run, once warmed up a bit. the Jalpa: better dash layout. better seats. different view out of the rear. funny how it has NO SUNVISORS. none of them did. nice leather. cool shift lever. turn the key on to prime the carbs, the pump whirs fast, and changes pitch as the fuel builds in the bowls of the carbs. two squirt and turn the key. tickle the throttle while she turns over. lots of noise. i swear all the jalpa motors sound like ball bearings in a metal can when cold at start up. i think its just noise from the big timing chains. monster oil pressure, battery light is on...... pop the revs above 2000 rpm to excite the diodes in the alternator, and make the light go out. all three of the Lambos i have had did this. they wont charge until you rev them a bit. very strange. the jalpa is a blast to drive. the carbs have a can- am growl to them as they crescendo in rpm and airflow. love this little v8. not a Ferrari. not good or bad, just Different. Lotus Esprit Turbo Se: sexy looks. very low and wide. door feels cheap when closed. leather smells and feels great. no room at all inside, and i am a small fry of a guy. huge console on your right arm. very different driving position. check the mirrors. this car is hard to see out of, until you find the "right" position to drive it, AND see the mirrors. rear spoiler blocks the rear view. GM Fuel injection means turn the key and start. she is ALREADY running. loud, muscular, needs to warm up a bit, as the idle is rough and hunting. no check engine light on, thank goodness. i hate that freaking light bulb! find reverse. ok try again. 3rd time, and its working. back out, select first. off ya go, wheeeeeeee! the wheeze, suck bang of the turbo, and the blowoff valve is intoxicating. and will get you in trouble. very hard to let it warm up, and not " squeeze it" a bit for that whoosha of acceleration. fun car. but feels cheap and rattles like a early 80s Corvette. very fast in a straight line. very fast. great fun in the curves. stock brakes are terrible, terrible, terrible. they suck. they are from a small Toyota. and they are too small. they really ruin the fun of the car, as i like to have a fun drive, (keeping the safety of others in mind), but i also dont want to die in this British- mobile. 84-89 Porsche 911: two so far. love these cars now, and it took my best buddy, Joe F. to get me to realize this. love the looks. euro or USA, they are still a great car. door opens with a quality feel. both of mine had OVER 150,000 or so miles on them. and they still have a great quality feel to them. love them German engineers ... different seats from the Italian cars. different feel. different driving position, different leather smell. but its a lovely Porsche 911, and this kind of different is great. somebody put the ignition on the far left side. weird, those German Engineers are... . turn the key and she is running. a growling, purring sound, with the slightly rough idle you sense with your butt-dyno, telling you she is dry sump. air cooled, and cold! these things rev like no other engine i have ever had, that was not in a motorcycle. not sure why others have not noticed this. maybe I AM THE WEIRD ONE. 911s can be driven almost anywhere, in almost any weather, and they dont care. they dont like hot temps, and slow traffic. but otherwise they drive like a dream. lots of smiles at speeds that will NOT get you into trouble with the law. PushButton Euro Pantera: mine was an early one. you open the garage, and wonder who covered up the UFO and left it in your "cars" parking spot. the thing is low. its wide. and it looks EVIL, in a good way. open the door, and it feels handcrafted, and hand fitted. slide in. another 70s spaceship interior, with sideways radio and all sorts of zoomy control levers. i could be entertained, just by touching things, and forget to start the damn thing! start it like a carb muscle car. notice the clutch and shift lever have a heavy, deliberate, mechanical feel. i cant see behind me. i cant hear anything as the car is so loud. i cant see out of the mirrors, as they are DANCING in the mounts from the motor. the car is a rocketship, that steers like a Ford F150, and has brakes that all 70s cars have : the kind that suck unless modified. did i mention its like sitting in a spaceship, made by kids before your time? 2nd gen Z28 / Trans Ams: i still love these cars, even with their crappy build "quality" crappy plastic everything, and heavy with not enough horsie-power feel they have. to me the 70-72 Z28's with a 4 speed, and the early 400 /455 4 speed Trans Ams are a whole lotta fun. useless cargo space, crappy brakes, heavy steering, terrible gas mileage, and i DONT FREAKING CARE! i grew up when the 70s cars were "used cars" and "old" nobody wanted them, as the late 60s muscle cars were all the rage, the older guys still loved them, the teens wanted them, and nobody but me it seems, cared about the old rally sport Split Bumper 4 speed camaros that were scattered round in various, broken conditions. i bought every car i could find, Camaro and Trans Am, if it was optioned a certain way, or had parts i needed. had up to 11 at a time. my parents were great! i did always work on them, and never let them sit in pile, neglected. i detested those who did, and would not sell them to anyone, for any price. to me many of these new cars do too much , to well, and are too damn fast. i respect the guys with 1000000 hp modded Lamborghini's ,and the super zoomy flappy paddle modern cars. but i will not buy one, when i can have all of these cool icon of the 70s and 80s in my garage. you can buy a 911, a 308, and a lotus or v8 Lambo, and still not spend $75k as of this writing. why would you want all that cash in ONE car, when you can have three/four that ***usually*** run, most of the time, is beyond me! *** my Lotus hated me, and had a check engine light that would come on and leave it in limp mode for no reason at all. your experience may vary. both of my jalpas were fun, but were "needy", as in the classic, its always something broken, Italian car cliche. *** Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Enjoyed your narations thoroughly, Thanx. As for the turnkey located to the left of steering wheel in Porsches,...my understanding (may be wrong) is that this was a strategic decision on the part of Porsche for racing scenes. Back in the older days when the drivers had to run to their cars to start, Porsche wanted to save that extra few hundredth of a second to start the car and it made more sense for them to locate the turnkey closer to the door so that they could fire up faster. w/ smiles Jimmy
There are several Khamsins in the Dutch club so they should be able to accomodate you and the president mr Harms has a superb one with over 100000kms that he drives to Modena often. best regards, Marc
I never had the opportunity to drive a Khamsin. How does the Khamsin drive compare to say a Ghibli or an Indy? I found the Ghibli a nice boulevard cruiser, but a bit heavy for spirited driving. The one I drove had serious understeer. The Indy was more of the same as it really was a stretched Ghibli. Beautiful body designs though. True classic GTs. For other Masers I think the Bora was a fun drive. Once u got used to the brake pedal pushing back at you [Citroen hydraulics] it had the mid engine balance and a nice rumbling torquie [sorry] V-8. And the hydraulic suspension provides probably one of the smoothest rides you will ever experience in a mid-engine exotic. The cockpit and dash gave me the feeling I should look for the altimeter. At night the green glow of all those gauges provides a very cool experience. Back in the 70s I had a hot date and was impressing her with the smooth and fast ride on a deserted Interstate in my old man's Bora. That impression ended when the head gasket blew at 150 mph. Didn't impress my Dad either......
The only strange looks my 330 GT ever got from a 360 owner was after we shared a track session - he then had to take a look at mine because, as he said, "you were almost keeping up with me!" Well, my car was being driven by a long time SCCA driver, not me. Other than short shifting (he had never driven a V-12 at high revs) he made the 330 go rather well until the brakes started to fade. It appears to me that the older cars don't feel like the performance cars they were designed to be, so novices like me can't get close to the actual potential, which is probably somewhat underrated. One quote from the past applying to the 330GT may be appropriate " thinly disguised long distance racer" I will never be able to corroborate that opinion. Cheers Warren
Whenever speaking or writing about the classic Ferraris, especially when the issue is an all-around great driver, the GTC seems to come up. Having owned mine from November, 1975 and putting well over 100,000 miles on it, I fully understand that. BUT, to really capture the essense of the car, find and read the Car and Driver road test from July, 1967. Kind of says it all! Bob Z.
The original alternator in my GTC was TERRIBLE! If I was driving at night in the rain with the wipers and AC on, it would always show discharge. Without the wipers on, it would just barely charge. I went to the local Car Quest auto parts store and bought a single-wire GM alternator. The regulator is internal and there is only one wire that connects to the original terminal block. They also had the proper size belt in stock. The setup will run every electrical device in the car and never show discharge It took a few hours to fabricate some adapter bracketry and I was in business. Total time to adapt: around three hours. Total cost: Less that $80.00 Being able to drive at night, in the rain and be comfortably cool: PRICELESS! Bob Z. ps - absolutely no cutting was done to the car - the setup is 100% bolt on. The original alternator will bolt right back in - but it will never happen in my car. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I wish I had a dollar for every time a 355/360/430 driver on a club drive day has said with genuine amazement, "we couldn't keep up with you guys". Us guys usually being 330's or Daytonas, on flowing and undulating country roads where experience counts for more than gadgets.
Obviously I like driving old cars but I also enjoy driving new ones as well. The thing that I really enjoy is driving old and new cars on the Giro d'Sicilia/Historic Targa Florio. I'm hoping some of you will join us next June. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
My view on new cars is admittedly not based on new Ferraris. Every time I have got into a newer car I've simply found them easier to drive, which TO ME means I have to do less and thus find them less involving. As I absolutely love driving this is a bad thing in my book. I do wonder if maybe real vintage cars might be my thing? ... but I do enjoy my little 1971 Alfa. Pete
Hello Steve: Your question how does a Khamsin drive is best answered by the fact that it is my favorite thing on wheels even though I have been lucky enough to drive almost everything. A Khamsin is an enormously improved Ghibli, feeling light as a Lotus Elan with extremely precise commands that any good driver soon learns: it is as agile as a Ghibli is heavy and clumsy it feels as much as a modern car as a Ghibli feels like a 1950's dinosaur (and I enjoy Ghiblis but on a mellow cruise not flat out through a mountain pass). The Indy is a wonderful GT and family car with lots of room but the engine is really on the front axle and thus the handling suffers. the Khamsin is a dry sump front MID engine with near ideal handling and the most wonderful and grand driving experience: every drive is an event and the engine sound is as delicious for your ears as a great Bordeaux for your palate! There is currently (apart of two in Palm Beach that I can't seem to make contact with) only one Khamsin in south Florida; the car of Michael in Miami, a very nice guy and I could put you in touch with him if you are really curious. The there is another in storage in Fort Lauderdale, navy blue tan. Let me know, always glad to make new Khamsin converts. Boras are great cars as well as you recall. The suspension however is not hydraulic but Giulio Alfieri had used the hydraulics to make the car much more comfortable and easy to drive than heavy previous generation cars. Sorry about your engine failure! Here is a somewhat related story Ermanno Cozza (the Maserati factory historian who has been there 57 years) told me: when Boras were new they had a client from southern Italy who called one day and said: "Every time I travel to the north or back on the autostrada I get steam vapour coming out of the radiator after about half an hour at top speed: this is not right!" After picking up their chins which had dropped to the floor when hearing this the Maserati sales department people including Cozza and also technicians endeavoured to explain to the esteeemd customer that nobody, absolutely nobody spends half an hour at top speed. The reality of owners and test drivers visiting top speed is that it lasts moments and then you have to slow down due to traffic or the road turning. "Ma no my Autostrada is very empty and very straight and I want to solve this problem!" So they worked on improving the cooling system for him....! best regards, Marc
I have similar tastes as you. The C/4 I would say is about my favorite, one of my favorites at least, of Ferrari body design. It's kind of forgotten about next to the Daytona, but I prefer the C/4.
