Drove the 488 today.. thoughts, photos and videos

Hey Jerome. Actually, after selling my CGT I did a lot of research to decide which car I wanted next. It wasn't all about Ferrari. It wasn't necessarily about the "latest and greatest". I was not wedded to any brand. The guys that brokered both cars for me have known me over 10 years and know exactly what I expect in a car and it's a balance of things. My point being, I chose the 458S because it was the best balance for me. It could have been anything. I was presented with the 488 option and a couple of McLaren options but I decided this was my choice. Next time I have to choose, it may or may not be a Ferrari. I'd like it to be, but we'll just have to see how the balance works out.

I get the sense there's a bunch of good drivers on this site, which is one reason I enjoy it. Nice to meet you ! Cheers !!

 

Nicely stated. Having said that, I'm pretty confident that ferrari has some pretty smart people who worked on the R&D of the 488 and came up with ways to improve the visceral experience of the car. I think many people who are down on this car now will like it more after driving it.

I am curious though if any of its positives (including straight line speed) will be enough to make me want to give up my speciale or F12 to get one. If the design was revolutionary (which it isn't to my eyes) then I might consider it. But having seen the car up close, I think it is merely an evolution of the 458 design and maybe a little nicer from certain angles and not as nice from others. I imagine if the 488 looked something like a La Ferrari many of us would be jumping over each other to get one and less critical of it despite lack of N/A.

Also, IMO turbo lag is a highly subjective experience. I have driven cars which to me seem to have immense lag (997 AND 991 Porsche turbos) where other experienced drivers report it to be imperceptible. I think if one's brain is hypersensitive to this sensation one is less likely to love a turbocharged car.

The bottom line is the 6-7 year old car that the 488 replaces was so complete in many ways and set a pretty high bar.

 

Well said. Much to ponder.

 

Could anybody show the article in Forza Magazine about the 488 GTB? Thank's in advance!

 

Unleashed | Issue 144 | Forza

 

Nicely written post. Unfortunately your logic is deeply flawed. Your point hangs off...

"It was the whole package that thrilled.

With Ferrari, you get an entire package, the entire range of sensations, not just in a straight line, but in the corners, AND the sounds, AND the good looks, AND the feel of the seats AND the airiness of the cockpit. If one of those starts to go south I don't think it's an "oh well" moment... I think it's going backwards in regards to the whole package."

So let's imagine for a moment that it's the other way round and it's the 458 that is replacing the 488. In this case, using your logic, we have to conclude that the 458 is one of the worst follow ups in Ferrari's history (O.K. I know there's the 348, but go with me here...), given that...


The good stuff...

Well, the 458 certainly sounds better. No question about that.

Throttle response - well, the 458 response is sharper, but it's debatable as to how much such a tiny margin impacts the driving experience. And that's not to mention that you basically learn to drive whatever throttle is under your foot as long as the response is not notably lazy.

Red line - 9 is nice, you'll soon get used to 8.


And now the bad stuff. The stuff that has to be filed under: If one of those starts to go south I don't think it's an "oh well" moment... I think it's going backwards in regards to the whole package.

The 458 is slow. Noticeably slow compared to the 488. You'll notice it every time you bury the throttle.

And the torque - the 458 feels positively asthmatic compared to the 488. You'll notice it every time you bury the throttle.

The handling of the 458 is not as good as the 488. Everything the 458 does handling wise the 488 does better and sweeter. You'll notice it every time you hit a corner.

SS2. The 458 doesn't even have this unless you've got a Speciale. And even then the implementation is crude compared to SS2 in the 488. There's a whole bag of fun right there that is just not on offer to the 458 driver. You'll notice it every time you hit a corner and bury the throttle.

The brakes are simply not as good in the 458 as they are in the 488. You'll notice it every time you arrive at a corner.

The build quality is not as good in the 458 as it is in the 488. You'll notice it every time you sit in the car. Or Walk around it.

And, although irrelevant to most Ferrari drivers, the 458 lags behind in both economy and emissions. You'll notice it every time you fill up.

(This is not an exhaustive list of the bad stuff, just the highlights)


So, if we're going to say "It is the whole package that thrills. If any one aspect starts to go south I don't think it's an "oh well" moment... I think it's going backwards in regards to the whole package." then we have to conclude, on balance, that the 488 is the far superior car and that the 458 fails in so many areas that it simply excludes itself from consideration.

 

Whoever says the 458 is slow or that the 458 doesn't handle well hasn't really driven one. You have to live with this car to appreciate just how good it is. Not saying the 488 wont be Ferraris best offering but the 458 has proven itself worthy over and over. Time and driving experience will ultimately show if the 488 can top it.

 

All the advantages you mentioned over the 458 are so minute you won't notice - nor gain - a thing unless you are a professional race car driver..

Btw minute means small

 

Let's not forgot to include the price in the argument. I agree that it's a tough sell if both cars were priced the same today (most people will not pay more for a slower car just out of principle) but in actuality it comes down to:

458 for 200k that does everything very well

Or

488 for 300k that does some things slightly better and a few things slightly worse.

For some people that extra spend will be justified (especially if you're a bored 458 owner), but for others not so much.

 

Not claiming the 458 is slow or doesn't handle well. I state the 458 is slow compared to the 488. Which it is. Similarly, I state that everything the 458 does the 488 does better. That is no slight on the 458.

Just testing the logic of the quoted text.

The extra performance, the extra torque, SS2 etc are not minute advantages. You won't have to be a professional driver to notice these things. Any moderately adventurous driver will play with these things regularly.

In the U.K. H.R. Owen are quoting the 488 starting at £181,449 against the 458 at £177,406.

 

Was referring to what prices are today for a used 458 vs new 488 if someone is looking now to make a decision between the two.

The question is, has ferrari given enough of a reason for people to spend more and buy the new car? For some yes, others would say no. Also agree that a bigger styling change would have been very helpful in persuading people to overlook any shortcomings. It's not like it was years ago when the 458 instantly outdated the 430.

 

What an artificially contrived half-assed post, and as such picking it apart isn't worth it.


Can we all just stop this silliness about which car is better?
Neither is "better" than the other for all people and all situations, we all know this (or at least reasonable people do).

Lesia...you come on post after post after post seeming to pick fights with people, arguing over everything endlessly, relentlessly, as if you are the supreme authority on all things Ferrari, including the highly subjective topics esthetics and design; and won't rest until your mission is done. It is growing tiresome trying to sift through meaningful posts and your endless grandstanding.

Can you please take a break from it?

 

Yes, that's a pertinent question in this case. And, yes, new styling rather than a refresh would have helped answer it for many.

Wow... remind me again who made you board prefect?

I didn't start the silliness about which car is better. Or didn't you notice that? Personally, I think they're both truly great cars. As I said, I was simply testing the logic of the quoted text. Telling perhaps that someone who goes by the name of 'italiafan' is more than happy to watch people take lumps out of the 488 but gets his panties in a bunch as soon as someone does the same for the 458. Fanboy, much?

It's a forum, we give opinions. That was mine. If you have a different one, give it rather than throwing you toys out of the pram. As they say, YMMV.

 

Am I missing something ? Lesia , have you driven both of these cars ? Just curious .

 

He went by the name italiafan long before the 458 was designed and announced as the Italia.

A lot of people from multiple different sections on the forum have complained about what is perceived as your mean-spirited posts and sarcastic retorts, so he is not the only one that is exasperated with your style. You might consider softening your approach to avoid antagonising everyone around you. The whole point of FChat is to enjoy one another's company in a virtual setting, and I'm sure we can share opinions without expressing them in ways that'll get our forum brethren all riled up.

Apologies everyone for the slight diversion there, we now return you to your regularly scheduled car discussion...

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Probably best, then, if I excuse myself from the discussion if everyone is this sensitive.

 

Nobody wants to exclude you from any debates, but a softer style would be appreciated and perhaps we could avoid anyone excusing themselves from the discussion.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Wow, your NSX must be a beast, I like it!

Regarding your comparison; You can charge each engine until it explodes, no matter what system you are using. Think about the turbocharged engines in the eighties, for example the Brabham BT52 with its BMW 1,5 liter turbo engine and nearly 1400hp in the qualification specification. Therefore of course you can charge a 458 with a supercharger system to dizzying heights, but the same you can do with the 488 exhaust turbo system. Believe me, the 670hp are just the beginning.

I'm convinced that Ferrari has selected the exhaust turbo system for its higher efficiency and the more variable applications.

 

Lesia44,

First let me state that my opinions are based not on real live driving experiences, but from talking to 458/458s owners and driving with them every other week for the better part of 2 years. I was at my dealership a couple weeks ago and saw one of the few 488s in the country going around for the dealer tours. I won't have any real life 488 commentaries in my club until somebody gets their allocation here in Norther California.

So I see two things here that are in debate.
1) is the 488 a better performer than the 458?
2) is the 488 a better 'car' then the 458??

They are completely distinct questions

I think based on the plethora of tests and reviews there should be no doubt the 488 is a better performer in terms of speed/handling than the 458 on the track. (I don't know compared to the 458S)

It doesn't take a Ph.D. in automotive engineering to deduce that (track speed) 308<328<348<348c<355<355f<360<360s<430<430s<458<458s<488
Progress marches on.

However does this mean a 488 is a "better" car than the 458? It depends on your definition of "better"...if it's by pure numbers on the track, of course. But as any car enthusiast knows, what car one deems "best" is very subjective and goes beyond quantitative measures.

If speed around the track is an owners primary concern, sell your prancing horse now: get an Ariel Atom or Radical. Add additional modifications with the extra 200K can afford you, and you'll smoke any stock Ferrari on a track. Of course, it would be extremely tasteless to roll up at the Ritz Gala in a Radical, but hey - it's the 'best' car right?

The overwhelming majority of Ferrari owners in my car club do not regularly track their cars or are regulars at SCCA events. I have only tracked my car twice in 3 years of ownership. Our drives are on rural back roads where a 458 owner would be lucky to get even 8/10ths of their car's full performance. That is how I interpreted "Geno-O's" comment. 'Magazine racing' and debating that 'car A' is faster then 'car B' in everyday situations is akin to Superman vs. Batman debates at the school yard.

 

I'll say it once more: I wasn't saying one car was 'better' than the other. I was merely testing the logic of the quoted text.

 

...and I'm saying your test is fundamentally flawed. I interpreted Gene-Os thesis as simple (Gene-O, please correct me if I am wrong). For him and most 458 owners, the increased performance/improvements from the 488 by itself would not necessarily invalidate the 458 experience (especially from a performance perspective.)

All the challenges you laid were mainly from performance agreed?

I do not debate, in fact agree with you the 488 is a more 'capable' machine...that sir is common sense. However, you did state many times that the 458 would *feel* 'slow' compared to the, 488. You may be correct (I myself have not done an A/B drive), however - personal experience with other cars with similar performance gaps has me greatly in doubt with your assertion.

I present to you a very simple thought exercise. The 355 vs. the 360. While I do not disparage the 360 by any means, I prefer the 355 over the 360 for my personal reasons...yet the 360 is faster...by even a larger margin between the 458 and 488.

Did I notice it?

Not one bit....and that is the point being made here.

 

Fwiw i just did a back to back test drive with a 2015 huracan with sports exhaust and my Italia and did not notice a difference in performance (then again my car has a few mods and the lambo was stock except for the mufflers).

As for the 488 I doubt one would feel that much of a difference. Additionally the car has so many setbacks imho (tentative styling,
small looking engine, inferior sound, less bespoke feel) that, again imho, to be a 'better' car it would have to go from 0-60 in less
than 2 seconds LOL

 

One of the first 488 in the country, I took this photo last month.

Here was a drive in Sonoma last Saturday, among the 30+ Ferrari, there were several 458, 2 458S, 1 F12...I'm sure some of them will drive the 488 soon...It will be interesting to ask them if they feel their 458/458s *feel* slow compared to the 488 off the track.
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thanks rmitchell, did you feel the 458 now felt slow in comparison?

Cheers