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Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Ngcanada, Jun 27, 2020.
Not willing. Way too much $
Depends on what you use the car for as well. The Speciale is streaks at the top of its lungs while being slow on track by modern standards. For that reason, the Pista was interesting to me. All the qualms about sound were settled for me when I was at a track day that had a Pista. It was coincidentally during a McLaren dealer track day when they allowed non-McLarens to fill some empty slots that I was sold on the Pista. Glad I made the decision to order one, and I haven’t regretted it yet. In my case, the Speciale was not a car I ordered new, which also was a factor.
While I think the Speciale has its allure to many, if you own one, you know its perks and drawbacks. You ultimately also know some of those drawbacks are lesser discussed.
At the end of the day, I find some forum members have an affinity for making backhanded statements about this car or that car with nearly zero basis of credibility in doing so save for a test drive or a friend/acquaintance owning one.
Everyone uses their cars differently and appreciates them in unique ways. For that reason, I’m interested now to see how the F8 compares to the Pista.
OP seems to be placing the bulk of his dissatisfaction on the level of exterior noise the car generates.
Sad fact is that over here in Europe, there is some serious hate growing for noisy supercars and the antisocial behaviour of their owners.
To be honest, I don't care what it sounds like from the outside, because I'm not trying to impress or pleasure others from my ownership of my car.
....... at least Ferrari are making it sound better inside.
Legislation is forcing change.... Audi dropped the R8 exhaust button in EU spec and having stationary rev limits, AMG's now far less visceral etc....
World is changing so be ready to appreciate the synthesised Tron-hum of a Taycan.
OP, completely agree with you.
Pista out, passed on an F8.
458 Spider and Challenge Stradale in.
Can’t get used to lack of decent sound in the modern V8’s, and the looks of all the newer Ferraris are awkward.
I have to think at some point they will drop the turbos and go NA with Bat Assist. Hoping.
And I disagree with the OP.
At least he had the balls to state
"I do not see the delta in price to pay to buy this car ".
And this is the real point. Let me ask how many would change if the was ZERO change over, a swap.
I dare say a very HIGH percentage.
How many are going to sell their 458 for 150 k only to pay 350 k for the F8 , ZERO.
This sound thing debate / arguments / etc IMO is just BS . They sound different. I still hear a Ferrari in my 488 GTB. IT aint a Ford/GM V8.
Ild rather hear I don't want to spend the money from people rather than OH the sound of the 458 is magical , ill never give that up.
And yet for so many of us sound matters, price...meh, not so much. Cheers.
Hi NG Canada
You and I had remarkably similar experiences. I have a 458 Spider and went to my local dealer in Melbourne Australia to test the F8 Tributo. I posted my comments below last month. I set them out for you:
May 23, 2020
Last week, the manager at my Ferrari dealer took me for a test drive in an F8 Tributo. I had the car for close to an hour, driving it on the freeway, on a curving boulevard and in surburbia.
What a fantastic car! Although I still don’t like the huge side air vents, the car is sharp looking, with the angles and curves in the right places. Inside it is extra well appointed, even luxurious. The manager (a really good guy) commented that he saw this car as an example of Ferrari going into the luxury products market! The dashboard and controls are beautifully laid out, with the horn now back where it should be (and not located in those impossible to find spots on the 458’s steering wheel) and the air vents are looking like the 812s.
The car was bloody fast - put the foot down and it really took off, and even when going straight, a semi-plant of the foot made the back end wriggle for the quickest moment before the car’s controls brought it back straight. It was hard, in areas where the speed limit felt like 10 km/h (in reality between 40 and 60 km/h) to test the car’s cornering ability, but from the driving I did, it felt glued to the road.
I wasn’t keen on the rear perspex window but of course the spider version won’t have that problem and I would never buy it as a hard top car. (The last hard top I owned was in 1978 and since then I have owned 3 great soft-tops before graduating to my 458 Spider.)
The other downsides? I must have been imagining it, but some of the gear shifts seemed slow at times at low speeds. Again I must have been dreaming, but I was also sure that I could sense a momentary lag in the turbo when I put the foot down.
Overall? A fantastic car. A real temptation for my next Ferrari. It is seriously gorgeous to drive.
But then I got back into my 458 Spider to drive home and OMG, the driving pleasure of my car was so much better than the F8 Tributo, that I was stunned. Yep, my car is slower and doesn’t handle as well, and it is less refined. But as for the driving pleasure? The 458 left the F8 Tributo well in its wake. The symphony that the 458 engine plays, that roar and crackle (and occasional pop) is just incomparably better than the turbo engine of the F8 Tributo. Being slightly less surrounded by luxury also makes the driving experience so much more real and exciting.
The F8 Tributo is fantastic and is now on my agenda as a potential new car, but there is no way that it will replace the 458. Rather I can’t imagine myself saying goodbye to the 458 but can see myself adding a stablemate. The 458 is just way too much of a driver’s car, more real and it sounds a trillion times better than any of the other Ferrari’s.
I can certainly recommend that you try the F8 Tributo - I was never taken by the various 488 models (and I have had the good fortune to drive a few of them around the Fiorano and Varano di Melegari circuits), but the F8 Tributo is another leap ahead.
It’s just that no matter how good the car is (and it is very very very good), there are some aspects that just don't light me up the way the 458 does.
That's the beauty of life, everyone has their own opinion when it comes to what they like. And just as I mentioned just before this post, people just can't help but make a [blanket, sometimes unintentionally offensive] statement that more defines how their eyes see beauty versus what's factual and universally true. In this world [forum] especially, there are plenty of examples where $$ has nothing to do with taste, but still, nobody wants to hear that someone else thinks their car looks ugly or "awkward."
Having a Speciale w/ 200 Cell Cats + an IPE Titanium exhaust + Forza flap controls made life in the Speciale pretty awesome. Over the years of ownership, a few things during various more recent days made me remember that everything is RELATIVE when it comes to supercars, especially emotions about a car and/or sounds it makes.
The GOOD: In the normal world, driving a 458 Speciale around made me feel excited and extremely happy. In my humble opinion, the Speciale front clip and rear end visually improved upon an already amazing body style. Combine that with the slight suspension tweaks and the exhaust I had, and every time the car even moved, it felt special. Part of that is also because every car around you is not a supercar, mundane, electric, and/or quiet.
The NOTSOGOOD: When I was at Car Week a few years ago, all of a sudden in one single moment, the Speciale sound and and that of any 458 for the matter was not so special. Sitting next to any NA V12 made it the 4.5L V8 sound ridiculously weak, strained, and desperate. What followed was an interesting change in emotion as it made that exhaust note feel a little less... emotional! Again, all relative.
The NOTGOOD: On track, the Speciale sounds amazing, but again, it's all relative. In 2014, when the Speciale and GT3 were the two must-have track weapons, it was awesome seeing and hearing them shriek down the long straightaways passing every weekend track rat out here. Today, while it sounds just as wonderful as it did when it first hit the scheme, the world around it has changed. When you're in that car, and you're being passed left and right as still trying to wringing the hell out out of that 4.5L N/A, suddenly you don't feel so fast. Perhaps in a much much older Ferrari, it's accepted that your car is screaming like a bat out of hell and is barely making it up the hill, but, in a Speciale, that's not a great feeling.
It's a funny thing that once that happens, that is, once relative perspective changes, it's hard to look back at the ol' girl the same way. The automotive world is changing quickly, and it seems every new generation of Ferrari is the "last of... [insert historical significance here]." I was ready to move forward with Ferrari.
For that reason, it made more sense to me to put it out there for someone who's going look at it in awe the way I was when I first bought it.
For the speed limited US in any event, we are at or past the point of useable performance for public roads. Cars newer than 458s are faster but you can’t really use the extra speed except on a track.
The limits on public speed are like human hearing limits are to good audio. At some point the equipment gets to the point most people can no longer discern the difference.
Would I turn down a car that has 100-200 more HP than my 458? If money was no object, of course not. If, as I do however, have to weigh cost-benefit, maybe. Then throw in the fun factor. Is the newer, faster car more fun? Lately I’ve really enjoyed driving my 360 spider with a stick. The 458 is way faster. But the 360 is nearly as much fun, maybe more, especially when speed is not the defining or overriding factor.
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So let me understand apart from all these things you observed above you are going to convince me that money had NOTHING to do with it ? I see no comment on that.
The fact that all you would get for your spider is maybe $350 k and a new F8 Spider will cost you around $720 k So you need to find another $370 K
This doesn't have any bearing on why you wont consider the F8 . Sorry you will not convince me. If they gave you a straight exchange , I bet you would be the first in line.IMO
Guys, don't you all think this relative speed and specialness of cars is all the same as that hot girl we used to like in high school?
It's okay. If you think the girl or the car is hot enough at this point, go get it! But just because you meet another hot girl in the future, it doesn't mean that dream girl you have right now is no longer hot.
Enjoy the moment now. Get the new girl, don't bash the old girl.
During almost 50 years behind the wheel of various cars I have my own biases and opinions. That they may differ from others goes without saying.
BUT, and this is a big BUT, anyone who has ever bought successive models from ANY marque has to agree on the following: each iteration of a model adds something to the recipe but takes something out. I am placing no emphasis on what "it" is that they changed. Merely, the sights, smells, feel, change from model to model. Therefore, liking one over another due to how well it executes what you want from your car has nothing to do with money. So if the newer one is not as enjoyable to to drive AND it costs more, then the driving factor is not the primary factor in walking away. The extra money just adds to the lack of desire or value one receives in trading into the newer car.
There is something to what Randall is saying. I have gone 47 years owning at least one Porsche, that includes all the 911 model series. The thing is that the newer the model the more modifications I had to do to make it something I would want to drive. The 992 is still not a car I would consider, at least not yet. It has gone too far from its origins, and I'm not sure I am in the mood to take one apart and rebuild it the way I'd want it. I owned a 360/430 (in both F1 and gearshift), I am not as big a fan of Ferrari's gated shifter as most of you are. I find it clunky, I prefer the gearshift in a Miata or S2000. My 997 monster is a gearshift though not the Porsche one (I blew two transmissions up during the build process), and at the moment it is my only gearshift car. You refer to weekend car, track car, daily driver, my term is what is the machines purpose, same meaning just different way to say it. I wont try and guess the reason you would or would not buy, but I don't think Angelo is wrong (at least in some cases), since even I (who has spent so much money on cars and modifications over the years) put a value on each purpose. In other words what I think the purpose is worth to me dollar wise. I may know a lot about cars, I see the sound of a car as the sound of the car, it is not a reason to buy or not for me, that is never considered in my purpose. There is though almost no machine that comes from the factory that I have owned that I have not found that I could make better (for my purpose). So imagine someone like me goes for a test drive, and unlike most people I am figuring out what I will need to change if I buy it. In the end your reasons are your reasons and who am I to judge you.
I was driving the 458 yesterday. Found a wonderful unused, twisty and freshly paved road. There’s no chance a car with 100+ more horsepower would have been more enjoyable or quicker on this road. In fact maybe a smaller car with less hp would have been. These are the kind of roads I enjoy, where you can get a flow, not just demolish a straight and then slam on breaks. I don’t need 700 hp to go 150 quickly on a turnpike. Not a lot of fulfillment there.
I do cede however I find both the Pista and F8 better looking (particularly Pista) than the 458. I’m sure the modern conveniences would be enjoyable. How I use the 458 I probably wouldn’t add either just swap. The 458 for me is an A to A car. I take it out, blast around for an hour and go home. I wouldn’t take a road trip in the car. During Covid there isn’t anywhere to go! If I was going to add a Ferrari it would be a GT to drive longer distances.
The 458 and 488 are more A to A than A to B to A or whatever. Parking the 488 is a problem or maybe I just can't park that car but I found it very difficult to park in a regular spot. The visibility out of the car is horrible and so it's not a a daily driver IMO because parking is so difficult. The newer technology available in the latest cars, 812, Portofino and F8 have the option of the surround view cameras which make parking a breeze. The ADAS system is also an improvement for driving in congested traffic areas. Having the blind spot alerts is very helpful in the 812 even though the visibility is way better than the 488 was.
I have found the 812 to check the boxes of power and handling that the 488 did but the sound is an order of magnitude better and it's easy to use as a daily driver. Now that I have more experience pushing the car around, it is very responsive and stable in turns at high speeds. I was uncomfortable at first because of the perception of length but now that I have more experience I have more confidence in the car and it responds well. I think that if the F8 isn't an option because the extra money doesn't get any extra enjoyment, that wouldn't be the case for the 812 and there are plenty available with low miles at really great discounts to MSRP.
JMO but I don't miss my 488 even though it had the drop top.
The ONLY right answer is here is you should always buy what talks to you - There is NO bad answer between 458, 488, F8 , 812 and we all have differing views, budgets, priorities. I didn't drop 350k based on what anyone liked, thought or opinioned. Enjoy in good health whatever ends up talking to you.
I just can't get into the Turbo's and the restriction of the RPM's. But the F8 is the best looking of the series.
The problem is, Ferrari made the 458 too good. So good that Chevy is modeling it for their Z06 version of the Corvette.
I too find the F8 and SF90 style too bland and derivative of the early 2000s Chevy Camaro from the front. 812S and it’s forebears tick almost all the boxes and went with the 812S as a stopover until I get my 812GTS as I love open top motoring.
Loved the 458S and would take (or a Speciale) that over a 488 or later model
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Ha, funny I think the F8 spider is one of the best looking drop tops on the market. As always to each their own...
The F8 & SF90 are probably many things to different people.
However, I don’t think ‘bland & derivative’ are on that list.
Eyes of the beholder, etc.
I think 20 years from now, people will still think the 458 is a pretty car.
And if we still have gasoline then, they can get in one and crank it up to 9 grand to experience something no electric car can do -- provide an emotional response.
Isn't that what driving a sports car should be about?
I feel the exact same way. There is something viceral about the way the 458 drives and sounds unlike any other modern or current Ferrari. Some of the magic seems to have been left out with the current flock models.
488 and F8 and Pista owners can do the exact same thing. Just faster.
I drove 458, 488 and F8.
I picked 488; can't really explain; just loved it.