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Dyno #'s This Weekend For 308 Intake/TB Mod

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    31,375
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Mike Charness and I are set up with a shop this weekend to test the infamous Durable 1 throttle body/intake modification and krank vents. I have all of this on my 84 308 now. Our plan is to run his car then put my stuff on his 84 308 and run it again.
    This should settle this once and for all.

    I'll either:

    a. Look like the biggest sucker because I LOST power after paying all that money.

    b. Look like your average sucker because I spend all that money and only netted 5-8 hp. A difference that can't really be felt IN the car anyway.

    c. Look okay because I netted about 10-15 hp. A lot of money but if you're into that kind of thing, so what?

    I'm thinking I'll fall somewhere between a and b. Let the betting begin...
     
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  3. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
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    Chris P. Bakon
    Are you planning on running the TB without the crank vents? It seems that would be needed to get clean numbers

    TB == 4 HP, my guess
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
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    Tommy
    We will do it every way we can.

    By the way I have had this stuff for about a year now, 4200 miles and two track events with no problems. At least we know that they won't hurt anything being on there.
     
  5. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    This should be very instructive. Even though the computer is supposed to correct, I hope the ambient air as close to the same for each run.
    My bet: I also think it will be somewhere in the middle.

    If you have extra run time, perhaps it would be interesting to compare compare a paper, K&N, and no filter if you have time.

    Good luck!
     
  6. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
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    Tommy
    I have a K&N too. Not sure about Mike.
     
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  8. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
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    chris morse
    I would be curious as to what the dyno operator said was the probable % variance from back to back tests with the same car with nothing changed.

    Is it 1-2% expected accuracy run to run??? This would be +- 2.5 hp to +- 5 hp on a 250 hp car.

    Would many runs even things out a bit more, reduce the average error??

    Just some thoughts, it has been 30 years since i've been on a dyno.

    good luck,
    chris
     
  9. pogibm

    pogibm Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    103
    Washington
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    Randy Madamba
    I'm curious to how much additional hp the crank vents, throttle body and intake runners add, I have all of this stuff installed on my car I guess it's obvious my engine builder was Kermit. We never had the chance to dyno them individualy the day we were at the dyno we run into some problems I had water in the fuel system and still manage to pull 189 rwhp.
    Now that my car is running well and dialed in the last pass I got a clean 227 rwhp.

    Randy,
    82 Mondy injected
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Hey, I already wager on 4 in the other thread, pick your own number :)

     
  11. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    227rwhp from a 2 valve is truly remarkable - that is like 270 horsepower at the flywheel from a 3 liter 2v engine. Even more remarkable if that is K-jet.
     
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  13. T-Yoro

    T-Yoro Rookie

    Apr 25, 2005
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    Ton Yoro
    Last time I spoke with Randy he still has the K-jet on, The cross-ram manifolds for the dcoe's are almost done haven't seen a V8 Ferrari with sidedrafts.
     
  14. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Are you running these tests over at Hesco's or up in Huntsville?
     
  15. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Yes - I've been folowing from afar as well - 4 x Weber side draft DCOE with long runners on a 4cam V-8 are going to really be impressive in low end torque and sound.

    His K-jet numbers bode well for Doc Cosgrove's run for sure.
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    K-Jet is over-maligned. The Lamborghini Countach used K-Jet for 400+ hp. The Porsche 928 used K-Jet for 310hp. Neither had a turbo. But for turbos, the Porsche 930 Turbo ran K-Jet, too (no slacker for HP numbers, either).

    K-Jet delivers the fuel. K-Jet just has some air flow restrictions, but that's hardly a deal-breaker for large HP numbers, as flow restrictions can be managed/reduced.
     
  17. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
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    Tommy
    Huntsville.

    By the way, do you hang around Cahaba Heights around lunch sometimes? I see a 348 Spider running around over there every once in a while.
     
  18. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Paul
    Randy, can you tell us what modifications were done beyond stock? 227 HP at the wheels comes out at 265 at the crank, well above a stock carbed euro is rated at. Very impressive for a CSI car. I know Kermit discussed modifying the air intake and air flow to the CSI unit, is yours so modified?
     
  19. pogibm

    pogibm Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    103
    Washington
    Full Name:
    Randy Madamba
     
  20. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Sideways
    Yeah. Could be me or my neighbor. He's got a red/tan 348, too. Small world.
     
  21. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
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    Tommy
    One of you was at Mud Town for lunch yesterday. My office is across the street.
     
  22. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Oh man! I had no idea. I thought that you were at the Summit. Where was your Fcar?

    Yes, that was me (as well as my 3 year old daughter in the passenger car seat) with the top down yesterday.

    Great weather.

    MT seems to be making it. Always iffy for a new bar/diner. Walk across the street and say hello some time if you can get away from work for a minute (are you still not drinking or can I buy you one?).
     
  23. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    That, ladies and gentlemen, is where the horsepower came from.
     
  24. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
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    Tommy

    When did I stop drinking?
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Ooops, sorry. I just didn't remember you drinking anything during/after our Alabama vineyard run last month.

    No worries. Walk over and it'd be my pleasure to buy you a drink.
     
  26. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
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    Mike Charness
    I've got a K&N installed, but I've got an extra UFI paper filter around here I can bring if we have more tuning time and extra runs to try. Or maybe we should dyno your car too with a few parts swaps.
     
  27. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Mike Charness
    Who did your head flow work?
     
  28. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
    31,375
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    LOL
    I just don't like wine (I was wondering where that came from).
     

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