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Early Chassis Numbers Vs. Motorcycles

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by SMS, Jan 23, 2008.

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  1. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

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    #1 SMS, Jan 23, 2008
    OK,
    I have just enough info on this topic to be dangerous, so looking for better intel.
    I have heard and read that Enzo was a successful motorcycle racer before turning to cars, and the explanation as to why very early Ferrari race cars had seemingly high chassis numbers compared to the age of the new company is that Ferrari continued sequential chassis numbers that started with the bikes. Made sense until I see a car with #002 or something on it blowing this theory, unless the road and race cars had different or parallel sequence numbering systems. Where's the historians?

    Thanks
     
  2. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #2 Miltonian, Jan 23, 2008
    That's a very strange theory, Bill.

    Very generally speaking, the competition (corsa) cars had even numbers starting at 002, and the Gran Turismo cars had odd numbers starting at 001.

    I'm not aware that Enzo raced motorcycles.
     
  3. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

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    #3 SMS, Jan 23, 2008
    I will grab a page tonight from a classic bike magazine a guy gave me on a plane that gets into this. Will refresh my details tomorrow.
     
  4. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #4 Miltonian, Jan 23, 2008
    From "The Complete Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Worlds Motorcycles" by Erwin Tragatsch, page 134:

    FERRARI/Italy 1951-1954
    A big name, but a small factory. There was no connection with Enzo Ferrari and his cars. Still, Ferrari motorcycles were of sound design and the range included two stroke and ohv machines from 123cc to 248cc. The last model was a beautiful 173cc vertical twin ohc machine.

    I believe there was a thread on here a couple of years ago about a Ferrari motorcycle that had come up at auction.
     
  5. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #5 El Wayne, Jan 24, 2008
    Yes, the theory is bunk. First car was 01C, second was 02C, etc. After this there was some reconfiguring and renumbering (I'll spare you the details here) but basically the comp cars started over with the 166MM at 0002M, 0004M, etc. "Road" cars start with 001S, 003S, etc.
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 Napolis, Jan 24, 2008
    So far as I know the third car was 002C. At least that's what the Document signed by Mr. Ferrari states.
     
  7. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

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    #7 SMS, Jan 24, 2008
    And now......the rest of the story.

    Ok, I found an article that gets into this. It specifically addresses 1935 Scuderia Ferrari ALFA. It carries chassis #SF64. The author claims to have seen photos of groups of 20-30 bikes pre dating that all with SF chassis numbering.

    Source is a page from print mag Motorcyclistonline.com. I'm guessing it may be in an on-line version as well. Interesting info, but I've heard a lot about Enzo and I had never heard this chapter.
     
  8. BIGHORN

    BIGHORN In Memoriam

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    #8 BIGHORN, Jan 24, 2008
    There was a Ferrari motorcycle unrelated to the car company.
    The Scudera Ferrari raced Rudge motorcycles (a British make) in the 30's
     
  9. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

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    #9 pastmaster, Jan 24, 2008
    I have never heard of, nor read of The Commendatore's, motorcycle involvement. Very interesting...

    I hope my learned brethren, continue the search for information on this. If true, did Tazio Nuvolari and Enzo Ferrari, have a 2-wheel connection, before Tazio, drove for the Scuderia Ferrari, at Alfa-Romeo? I believe Il Commendatore, considered Tazio Nuvolari, the "ULTIMATE DRIVER OF DRIVERS" for his era, as he was also a Motorcycle Champion, in Italy, if not the World?

    The Scuderia, was it involved with motorcycles, how about bicycles? It was a RACING CLUB, after all, and a SKI TEAM, would also fit in to the philosophy. Anyway, GREAT SUBJECT!!! :)

    Ciao...Paolo
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #10 El Wayne, Jan 28, 2008
    Of course, you're correct. My point is that, even though the numbering system started over a couple of times (01C/02C, 002C, 0002M, 001S, etc.), the idea that "very early Ferrari race cars had seemingly high chassis numbers compared to the age of the new company" is complete nonsense.
     
  11. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

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    #11 SMS, Jan 28, 2008
    Looking back at a prior post, it was Enzo Ferrari's Alfa race cars apparently continued the bike chassis numbering, not the Ferraris.

    Would be nice to hear from an Alfa historian on this.
     
  12. Pranucci

    Pranucci Formula 3
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    #12 Pranucci, Jan 28, 2008
    Ferrari may not have raced bikes, but he was aware of their technology.Enzo did tell Dr. Taglioni of Ducati that "the door is always open, you don't need to knock"
     
  13. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    #13 toggie, Jan 28, 2008
  14. ronr

    ronr Formula Junior

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    #14 ronr, Jan 28, 2008
    The article is also in the print version of the new Feb 2008 issue of Motorcyclist magazine.

    It also says many of the early race car drivers started out on bikes. Tazio Nuvolari won his first motorcycle race on a Harley in 1922, and won four GP races 3 years later.
     

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