Early History on 3223 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Early History on 3223

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davidgoerndt, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. CMY

    CMY F1 World Champ

    Oct 15, 2004
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    Chris
  2. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

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    #27 kvisser, Jan 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As suggested by Chris in his post in the "Ones that got away" I wanted to start a new thread on the history of 3223. One point I wanted to make is one inaccuracy of the GTO article reference in this link.

    http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages/articles/articles_07.html

    For some reason the article leaves out the ownership of 3223 in 1962 of Bob McKelvy, the owner of Scuderia Bear Racing Team.

    In this previously posted it shows that McKelvy bought 3223 in July of 62

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/3223GT.250GTO.htm

    Mr Mckelvy eventually sold 3223 to Bob Grossman in September of 63.

    Bob Grossman also raced for Scuderia Bear.

    I have been lucky enough to scan in a number of vintage shots of 3223 in action including the Nassau races referenced in the Johnstarkycars article. Attached are some images from back then.
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  3. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    No.7 in the last pic is #3765LM.
     
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  4. CMY

    CMY F1 World Champ

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    Maybe he means #22 racing past on the right of #7?

    -Chris
     
  5. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    No.22 is 3757GT.
     
  6. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

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    #31 zjpj, Jan 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can someone please give more of a history of Scuderia Bear?

    Any relation to current-day "Scuderia prancing teddy." Attach - pic of a 250 PF coupe
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  7. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

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    #32 kvisser, Jan 20, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually, in that photo, the Scuderia car is the white 250 GT in the background.

    Here is what I know of Scuderia Bear. It was a private racing team in the 60's owned by Bob McKelvy. He started out with an Abarth, graduated to the white 250 GT, purchased the 250 GTO in 62, sold that then I am not sure in what chronological order, campaigned a 250 LM, and a 250 P. Scuderia also raced a 427 Cobra, a "Genie Cobra", a Lola Mk6, a 1966 Gt40 (chassis 1029) which crashed in practise. The car was so severly damaged, Bob hired a local farmer to bury the car in a field.

    I'm not sure when he stopped racing. Mr McKelvy did have the priveledge to have owned and raced some astounding vehicles.
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  8. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    #33 SefacHotRodder, Jan 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. nunzio828

    nunzio828 Karting
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    the period historical photoghaphs are a treasure
    both great to look at and noteworthy for the record
     
  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Isn't this 3387/GT? Note narrow rear spoiler and different parking lights.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
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  11. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    I'm sorry. Yes, Kare, you are correct. A Mistake on my part
     
  12. kvisser

    kvisser Formula 3

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    #37 kvisser, Jan 24, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  13. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    This is an interesting thread. Last night, I took apart my yellow 1/12 diecast 250 GTO with the intention of sandblasting and painting it in a different color. I decided I wanted to redo it in a historically significant scheme, and when I started researching them this evening, I learned that Phil Hill had driven a 250 GTO at Sebring. I met Mr. Hill and Mr. Scaglietti at the 2001 FCA meet in Dallas - I worked a the host hotel, and that weekend is what turned me into a Ferrari geek. From a personal standpoint, the ideal choice is to redo my 1/12 model in the livery of Mr. Hill's car from the '62 Sebring race.

    I was under the impression that it was 3387 that Mr. Hill drove at Sebring, but after reading this poster's thread, I am a little confused - was it 3223 or 3387?

     
  14. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    3223/GT. Some sources (falsely) list 3387/GT.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  15. nunzio828

    nunzio828 Karting
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    hi guys now i too am confused as barchetta does not list phil hill as a driver they too clearly feel its the second gto what proofs are there to either agree or have this corrected
     
  16. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Nunzio (i assume that is your name?), if you were wondering who sold the car to Japan:

    http://www.euro-classics.com/sold.html


    The Japanese text underneath translates to:

    You sell to the Japanese client in 1993. Before the conveying to the Japan, 1994 pebble beach/it participates in the opening event with モンタレー including somewhat the list ration. Presently location to Japan.




    ~Chris
     
  17. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Sorry, I wasn't really paying attention. First of all the photo above (below, depending on your settings) shows 3223GT in Sebring 23/mar/63. This entry has sometimes been falsely listed as 3387GT.

    Phill Hill's ride in Sebring 24/03/62 was 3387GT.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  18. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    Nunzio, I have been looking for verification, and I found this at Phil Hill's website. It lists him as driving 3387 at Sebring 1962, and by 1963, when 3223 was apparently raced at Sebring, Hill was driving for Shelby.

    Phil Hill's page lists his 62 Sebring entry # as 24, and chassis number 3387.
    http://www.philhill.com/pdf/phil_hill_record.pdf

    For reference.

    Barchetta's 3223 page http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/3223GT.250GTO.htm

    Barchetta's 3387 page http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/3387GT.250GTO.htm

    What color is 3223 today? :) And welcome to FerrariChat! :D
     
  19. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Does 3223/GT still have the original engine? Do you have copies of build sheets? What is the engine number?

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  20. nunzio828

    nunzio828 Karting
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    due to the prestige level of the vehicle the best in the world were brought in to verify, audit , document and physically inspect every single aspect prior to purchase
    yes it is spot on
    yes i have everything the actual owner should posess
    it is red
     
  21. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Thank you for answering all of our questions. We certainly appreciate it. Is there any way that you would be able to post some pictures when you have a spare minute?
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Y'all can do what you want, but nunzio828 did start a thread just for 3223.

    If Wayne gets a minute, he can move the posts on 3223 over there.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I might not have done a perfect job, but I think I got most of the 3223 posts into this thread.
     
  24. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    It would still be very interesting to find out the engine number, which has not been reported "in the open" so far, neither have the build sheets been in circulation.

    As you may know, the factory mechanics seem to have picked up one block here and another block there to be built as racing engines. Maybe they selected particularly good blocks by some unknown criteria. This also explains why GTO-engine numbers seem quite random.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  25. 250gto

    250gto Karting

    Nov 23, 2005
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    i don't believe you are the guy i am searching !!!
    are you :
    04/nov - J.B., PA, USA - paid $10.6mio via Gizzi/.../.../Hamilton ?
    if yes i have a lot of informations for you (plates, race #, dates, .......)




     

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