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Early photos of 0834?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by EnzoNZ, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. F1tommy

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    #151 F1tommy, Dec 20, 2013
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    Ok, here is where I am stuck on this whole history of #0834. Was #0834 not seen after September 1967 for a long time(maybe over a year). The chassis used for the 212E was based on a 166/206 early style frame of wich Ferrari built 3 I believe, one is #0834, one is #0840 and the last #0842. I read that but is it really true or did they build another spare frame? We know that #0840 was used in the Pininfarina show car and sometimes was refered to as 034. In late July 1967 #0842 was crashed and the driver Gunther Klass was killed(see photos, I doubt it was rebuilt in 2 months when 212 first appeared, as a death was involved and the damage extensive). The 212 chassis was testing in October 1967 according to reports but #0842??(#0862 chassis 020 ) was also turned into the P5 showcar(or was it). All that and #0834 was still sitting in a corner at the factory waiting to be rebodied and sold?? I find that strange.

    1st question, was there more than 3 early Dino chassis made?

    2nd question, was the 212E really based on an early chassis?

    3rd question, does anybody have hard information on #0834 between September 1967 and mid 1969(documents not photos that you think are #0834 but could be any 206S)?

    4th question, were the remains of #0842 really turned in #0862 or was it a all new chassis or another chassis?


    This was an interesting time at Ferrari. Things seem to have been moving very fast at that time due to Enzo trying to sell the company to FIAT. I am just curious to find out what happened with these early Dino's. The original #0834 body has to be one of the best looking Ferrari bodies ever.
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  2. Artfama

    Artfama Rookie

    Aug 22, 2010
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    Gentlemen, thank you for your contributions - so far. Let me add some remarks: the engine installed in #0834 is #0842, the one from the (only) other prototype built and in which Gunter Klass tragically died. The gearbox has the stampings of its type number plus "N1" ( Numero Uno). The rod from the gearbox lever to the gearbox goes through the passengers seat ( unlike 206S). The 2 visually most apparent differences to the 206S are: bottom line of windscreen not on the same horizontal line with bottom line of side screens - 2 round air-inlets plus 2 small oblong air-inlets left and right of main large radiator inlet. If the left photo supplied by Boudewijn per 12-19-2013 shows #0834 then this is the current body as far as can be judged from this photo. Leandro Terra bought #0834 from Colomba Arnalda Lualdi in December 68, raced it in various events incl. Targa Florio 53 + 54 ( stickers still on windscreen) and then stored it for nearly 30 years until selling it in 1999 to California. #0834 as raced by Terra ( alias Cinno) in the 1969 Targa Florio has the same body then and now. I hope this helps a bit.
     
  3. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Thank you very much for the information.

    The photo testing a 206S with Bandini can't be #0834. The old 166P style body was used at the Targa Florio on May 14th 1967. As you know Bandini was killed at Monaco a week before the Targa Florio race in 1967. The 206S testing with Bandini has to be #0842, most likely before Sebring in 1966. The dashboard does look like #0834's and that threw me off also.

    I just want to state again I know your car is a genuine early chassis Dino race prototype, one of two(along with the 3rd showcar chassis). My question was if they used #0842 or #0834 for the 212E. I don't think the answer will be that simple as they probably robbed parts off both #0842's remains and #0834 to built the mountain climb 212E and #0834, the car you now have. I wonder when the factory lost ownership of your #0834, although Colomba Arnalda Lualdi was very close with the factory. I will have to get down to Florida to see your wonderful Dino next year.
     
  4. Artfama

    Artfama Rookie

    Aug 22, 2010
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    Thank you for this. As far as I know SEFAC Ferrari sold the car to Scuderia Nettuno around August/September 1967 hence a corresponding Certificato d'Origine dated August 67. In all fairness a little word of warning: As #0834 suffered a transaxle problem at the BSWR ( anybody knowing of a crown wheel and pinion "off the shelf"?) we might run into problems having #0834 ready for the Cavallino (she is in the US). For Amelia in March: the Dino will be there.
     
  5. Boudewijn

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    There's an excellent article on the 212E in Cavallino 97 from 1997 written by Marc Sonnery. His research regarding the chassis origin of 212E results with 206 chassis #020 renumbered 0862.
     
  6. F1tommy

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    #156 F1tommy, Jan 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, thank you.. I already saw that article.

    Here is #0842 as it was in March 1966 at Sebring. It is hard to see the dashboard but I am sure the b&w photo testing is this car just before the Sebring 1966 race, although the dashboard was modified it seems before being shipped to Florida.
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  7. BIRA

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    #157 BIRA, Jan 2, 2014
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    You can try Piet Roelofs in Netherlands for off the shelf crown and pinion. Got one set for my Daytona comp, this is his specialty though, but he may have others if they are not one offs!
    And happy New year AM, see you at one of the events this year.
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  8. F1tommy

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    #158 F1tommy, Jan 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think this is #0834 at the 1970 Targa Florio. Also a few factory #0834 hillclimb car photos from the above link(Ferrari Magazine).......


    Notice the modified door sills that were changed before the car ran at the Targo Florio in 1967. That was done around the same time the rear fenders were flared and a cut line in front of the rear wheels was added. This work was all done by SEFAC in late 1966.
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  9. bitzman

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  10. michael platzer

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    ????please explain! 0834 owned by the austrian Andreas Mohringer was never in storage. The car is regulary driven and shown since many years. From the Historic Challenge to Cavallino Classic it was shown every year and won many mayor awards.
     
  11. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    See the Google listing. Most recent picture from the Cav. Classic 2015. Not much else from 2013.Anyone got any? tonga's crew
     
  12. michael platzer

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    #162 michael platzer, Jul 22, 2015
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  13. Terra

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    That's not quite true. When I acquired 0834 from Leandro Terra in 1997 (just prior to the Ferrari 50th Anniversary celebration), it had been in storage at Sig Terra's impressive home in Francavilla Al Mare (near Pescara), Italy undisturbed for over 25 years.

    Not too long thereafter, Sig Terra allowed me to buy his 206 S #018, (cut-down) ,which he kept in decades-long storage.

    Finally in 2002, I had the good fortune to purchase his 196 SP #0790, which had been resting at his home for over 35 years.
     
  14. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

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    Thank you for your reply - of course i was talking about the last 15 years and especially during Andreas Mohringers ownership.
     
  15. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    I apologize for the linguistic misunderstanding! For me, the word "never" means a long, long time (i.e. meaning far longer than a period of a mere 15 years, especially in relation to a car which was born about 50 years ago, etc.).
     
  16. F1tommy

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    #166 F1tommy, Nov 25, 2015
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  17. Artfama

    Artfama Rookie

    Aug 22, 2010
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    Many thanks Tom for these (so far unknown to me) photos.
    For the record: this year 0834 won Platinum in preservation class as well as Best of Show (Competitio) at Cavallino and Best Race Car (post 1960) at Amelia. In June the Dino had the privilege in Italy to have the grandson of Lodovico Scarfiotto as a passenger during a fast drive "up the hill" into his hometown.
     
  18. F1tommy

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    Great story and nice to see it getting out so much.

    I have high res. copies and will post a few more(and point you to the website I got them from). I think 0834 is a great car. Did you ever think about restoring it to 1965 specification(and putting the body you have in storage)??
    I know the body on it is also beautiful so that would be hard to do, and people might complain but it would be nice to see the early 166P/206 back again!! It would also be expensive.
     
  19. Marcel Massini

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    #169 Marcel Massini, Nov 26, 2015
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  20. F1tommy

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    #170 F1tommy, Nov 26, 2015
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  21. Artfama

    Artfama Rookie

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    Thanks again to both of you. Tom's idea certainly has some merit ( and he has pointed already to some pros and cons). However the existing body is on the car since at least 1969 ... from my point of you I'd rather have this original period body than a totally reproduced new one as a copy to the one Tom is refering to ( now on the front cover of the new Michael Keyser book on Jonathan Williams " Shooting star on a Prancing Horse".
     
  22. GIOTTO

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    #172 GIOTTO, Nov 27, 2015
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  23. GIOTTO

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  24. Marcel Massini

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    #174 Marcel Massini, Nov 27, 2015
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  25. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    I understand. It's a hard choice to make. Your car almost looks like the Targa 1967 version with a new nose and the rear end seam lines welded up. The military aircraft guys have the same problem. The Smithsonian has the only early B17 "Swoose" left under restoration and want to restore it to as it rolled off the production line. The military preservationist want to restore it to the highly modified way it last flew. My only opinion is if you do change the body ever save all the original parts and take great care to preserve them.
     

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