Early vs. later 328 - difference?

Is your friend's car an 88 (concave wheels) or 88.5 Convex wheels. The later had susp mods. Does your car have alot more miles (and therefore enjoyed more!). Generally the cars shouldnt feel too much different.

Dan

 

Mid 1988 on there were very significant suspension changes....that would account for that. As far as engine performance...your car may be out of tune (cam timing, ignition timing or bad fuel injectors). The differences in performance between North American and Euro is only 10hp...insignificant. (260hp versus 270hp).

Get your car on a chassis dyno and see for certain if something is amiss. Dynos are great for identifying a problem in performance. I found a problem with my 308, and after careful tuning gained 20+ hp.

My 328 was right on the money for hp (260hp).

Dave

 

The uk spec 270BHP 328's MURDER the catalysed 255 BHP us/swiss spec cars. I have now driven about 8 Aus/us/swiss spec 328's and they are dreadful when compared to the uk spec.

A UK 308 QV will blow the doors off a catalysed 328. I just drove them back to back, and it is a night and day difference. I haven't dyno'd either, but it's a HUGE difference.

The power difference could be addressed, but it's comp ratio, cam profile, tune and FULL exhaust system for starters.

With regard to handling, the early cars are MUCH nicer in my opinion. I like the "fluidity" of the 308 style suspension. very forgiving and very communicative. The later cars with the anti dive geometry and convex wheels with different scrub radius are very twitchy by comparison, also, the concentric steering wheel mounting of the later cars gives a weird feel.

The later cars are better built, and are actually faster around a race track in the right hands, but offer a much wider window for human error in the handling dept. Tyres on the late cars are CRITICAL, and handling can become dangerous if the incorrect "N" rated tyre is used. You must have the same or higher "N" rating on the rear, never a lower one.

 

I agree with Phil on the power issue. All the V8 4V cars in base Euro tune were very good compared to ours.

 

Crawford,
I used to own an 87 GTS and put about 9K on it. I now have an 89 GTB and have put about 10K on it and counting. They do feel quite different. The later cars have a quicker steering ratio which is more responsive and has a more modern feel. The suspension itself is not too much different. The nose does not dive as much under braking. I think the ride may be a little less soft. I have never seen any objective performance measurements of late vs early in terms of handling and my own experience leads me to believe any measurable difference is not great. I like the feel of the later suspension myself although I like the looks of the earlier wheels better. On the track, my GTB is pretty neutral. Oversteer can certainly be induced but it is easy to control. 4 wheel drifts are more the norm. As far as motors go, it sounds like yours is sick. The Euro motor is a tad faster, but not seat of the pants. Also, the US cars have a shorter overall gear ratio which may explain some of the difference you noted.

Dave

 

I'm not going to have an arguement here, but the difference between US cat and UK non cat 328 is ENORMOUS.

And they are quite different underneath, both in suspension design and handling......

I'd have a non cat 308QV over a cat 328 any day.....which in Australia is what you get.....non cat QV that is.

 

Are you suggesting that, in a (say) 1987 UK vs US 328, the suspension is different? (What?)

 

No, Sorry for the confusion.

I'm saying the early cars are quite different to the later ones in terms of suspension, and I'm also saying how much better a Non cat UK spec engine, is over and above a catalysed US/Swiss/AUS engine.

For example, the early cars have a close to 308 suspension which has solid outer rear wishbone bushes, while the later convex wheel cars have fully rubber inner and outer rear ends, which makes them twitchy when in conjunction with the anti dive front and different scrub radius.

Also, I don't think they have different steering rack ratio, but I may be wrong, But I do KNOW the later cars have concentric mounted steering wheel, which gives a variable leverage depending on which part of the wheel you grab. if you hold the lower section you have a quicker ratio than if you hold the upper section. it makes for a wierd ride........

 

Ferrarifixer,
They do have different racks with different part #'s. My info also indicates a quicker ratio. I have tracked my 89 quite a bit as well as QV's and earlier 328's. I have never experienced any "twitchiness" you cite. What I notice mostly is more direct, quicker steering with the later setup. I had an 85 GTB in addtion to my 89 for a while. In comparison, the 308 always felt like they had built in quite a bit of initial understeer compared to the 89 and you had to turn the wheel more at turn in. They had the same size wheels, tires and tire brand (S-03's), so that was not the difference. Again, I think this comes down to personal preference as neither suspension can hold a candle to modern cars of any brand.

Dave

 

Originally Posted by ferrarifixer
I'm not going to have an arguement here, but the difference between US cat and UK non cat 328 is ENORMOUS.

Are you suggesting that a mild hop up to the 328 (de-cat, pistons and cams) would produce a siginficant HP gain?

 

Really? You mean my '95 VW Jetta (in stock trim) has a better suspension than a Ferrari? Wow, I didn't know I was so lucky. Heck, with the sport suspension I installed I should be spanking the F-cars left and right at the autocross!

I still want an early '88 328 (I've finally made up my mind now as to what Ferrari I want/afford).

 

Dear Air Cooled,
In addition to my 328, I have a Subie STI. On track day, The Subie laps 308's and 328's in short order, and I have been lapped by other Subies when driving the 328. Can't speak for your VW, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was quicker through really tight turns.

So why have a 328? And why ever take it to a track instead of the Subie? It is a completely different experience. The best way I can describe it is the 328 handles beautifully, but not great. The Subie handles great but not beautifully. My 328 will remain long after the STI has moved on.

Dave

 

We're talking 15+ year old cars here, and unless you do all your own maintainence or get really anal about it, I can bet you your car is not at optimal tune. Something as simple as wheel alignment will make a car handle poorly which you don't notice until you either fix it or drive your friend's car.

How about suspension bushings? I hear on Ferraris they wear out pretty fast. Are they 15+ years old? Not to mention fuel injectors, small air leaks, etc.

Owning a 1972 car myself, I have been amazed at how it's improved in a noticeable way every time I change/repair/upgrade an important part or system; sometimes things I didn't realize even needed attention until I specifically checked.

Ken

 

Well, I didn't say it to clearly, but I agree more now. If his is a Euro, and everyone says Euro is more lively, then something is wrong with his car....

As I said before, get it on a chassis dyno, and you will know for sure.

 

Dyno's don't show everything. The point to point speed of each is best compared on a track.