Eccelstone says engine manufacturer could leave in 2014

You seem to be implying that they didn't "mess with the rules" in earlier times? They had more different engine formulas and generally moved the goal posts all the time back in the "good old days".

Other than what I'd call "bits & bobs" and permitted engines of course, the rules have actually stayed remarkably similar over the last many years.

I could argue that one either way. Like most here, I don't give a damn about their fuel consumption. Set the rules and let 'em at it. No refueling though.

OTOH, there really is no argument that a V6 turbo is more relevant to the "real world" than a big ol' V8. Whether this is relevant in itself is of course another matter. It does start to appear that a few manufacturers are at least interested in getting involved, which is a start. I also think they got it right by setting the "maximum fuel flow rate" as that should avoid the joke that was Le Mans (and I guess endurance racing in general, but outside of Le Sarthe, who cares? ) when they restricted fuel allocations.

Now, some are speculating that this limit is too low to allow 'em to use max revs (set, artificially and wrongly IMO at 15K IIRC.) If this turns out to be the case I'm sure they'll quietly increase it. If these things can rev, they'll be just fine IMO.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the "longevity" rules either; The reliability they're currently achieving would have got you laughed out of the room just a few years back. Hopefully we'll see a return to a few "kablamo's" next year while they try and get it right.

"Moe" I like that!

Research has consistently shown that tarmac run-off areas are far and away safer than gravel however; The cars stop quicker and are much less likely to roll over.

Who's buying palaces outside of Bernie, the team principals & many involved? They're more or less (before T12 jumps on me again ) as fast and much safer than they've ever been. Seems there's many people willing to build modern tracks and pay Bernie's fees.

As for a MASH unit, give Prof Sids book a read; No longer needed - He mandates a pretty well equipped (& appropriately staffed) ER at every circuit and an evacuation plan that can get anyone to a fully equipped (and on standby) specialist hospital PDQ.

AFAIK, nobody knows exactly where the original MASH unit ("The Stanley Wagon" after Lou who initially funded it) disappeared too - Rumors were the Middle East somewhere, but at the time it was quite the scandal....

Cheers,
Ian

 

If this thread isn't an April Fool's joke it should be.

 

We DO have an engine manufacturer leaving as a result of the new rules. Cosworth.

 

In a video I posted in another section highlighting the 50's & 60's in F1, it looked like there were no rules in the 50's, Fangio driving w/o helmet or eye protection wearing only a short sleeve shirt and no visible restraint. Then the 60's, from 1966 all the way to 1986 (1986 again) it was 3.0L N/A and 1.5LTurbo's that were allowed.

It was the 86 season with it's massive power that began the FIA's constant messing with the engines and tracks that changed the character of the sport. So 1966-1988 1.5l turbo's allowed. That's a long time.

And ever since it seems a constant tightening on performance with changes of,; engine size, cylinders, electronic aids, car width, slicks, rpm's, endurance.............. these guy's are race car drivers not bus drivers ............ Tracks have gone from long fast straights and turns to tilke drivers ed courses with chicanes everywhere. Luckily Spa, Suzuka, and Monza are still around, but where is the forest section at Hockenheim, the Oesterreichring, Zandvoort, Adelaide, Imola, kyalami, the mile long mistral straight at Paul Ricard, the 80's Silverstone.

The NJ track actually looks good.

I certainly have not done scientific testing of the optimum traps for run-off area's but it seems to me that a high-tech mixture of the right size/shape gravel and some light polymer-type material that would tend to let the car dig in, in a raised bed would be superior to anything else for absorbing speed PLUS airbag/rubber tire barricades in front of a flexible yet unbreakable wall. The palace funds would have covered the cost with some left over for a few shacks.


A very fast crash Senna survived, IMO Imola needed a safety make-over as there was only about 20 ft before the wall where he died.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22JYbtncS1w]Formula One 1985 Senna crash - YouTube[/ame]


examples of traps that work
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo5_OmNgGZo]ALMS Gravel trap for Feinberg Road America 2009 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jH8g-qJK3w]Engineered Materials Arresting System EMAS by ESCO - YouTube[/ame]

 

That's more to do with nobody wants them

 

I dont care what the cylinder count is.
I want close racing with as many top manufacturers involved as possible.
Whatever that takes.

 

Fangio at the airport in Modena from 50 years of onboard? Great stuff!

Anyway, I hear you, I really do. They didn't mess with the engine specs (and nobody even bothered with turbos until Renault came along) but the rules were often "tweaked" year on year. The same complaints, "leave the rules alone" etc have been heard since the dawn of time was my point.

Indeed - They'd simply gotten too fast for the circuits of the day. They tried catch-fencing - Brilliant idea until someone gets trapped inside a mile of wire mesh!....

+1 to all. But please remember the teams are the ones who really set the rules these days - The FIA enforces 'em, but it's (primarily) what the teams want that gets implemented.

The FIA Safety Institute has done the scientific testing here; The problem with gravel and it's ilk is a sideways car almost always digs-in & rolls. A "straight ahead" car simply skips over it without losing much speed until it hits the wall. As long as the driver's conscious and can hit the brakes tarmac stops 'em much quicker.

No doubt!....

But, while there's still folk willing to pay Bernie's fees why should he fund it? As we've said elsewhere, if FOPA ever gets their act together he may have to do just that.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Agreed - the high friction Tarmac runoffs are much safer. It's not just F1 using these tracks one weekend a year, and the rest of the track users don't like the gravel traps - especially motorcyclists and vintage racers. The older, higher CofG vintage cars on skinnier tires have a much higher chance of digging in and rolling on the gravel runoff areas.

 

The problem I have with high-friction tarmac runoff areas is that they don't penalise bad driving enough.

As it is, some drivers use them in all impunity in the course of practise or even the race.
There is no penalty attached to using the runoff areas.

Why not institute a compulsory travel through the pit lane every time a driver put 4 wheels outside the track?

Do it twice during the race and get a black flag!

 

Gerhard Berger had a similar accident at the same corner in '89 and only had minor injuries (accident@:45 secs ) :

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hv0zPkvRQM]Imola 1989 Gerard Berger Crash LIVE! - YouTube[/ame]


Nelson Piquet went into the wall backwards in '87 and walked away:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLyAKkeA25Q]Nelson Piquet crash acidente Tamburello 1987 melhor qualidade (best quality) - YouTube[/ame]


And lets not forget that the actual cause of Senna's death was not his declaration against the wall but a freak accident where a piece of suspension entered his helmet like a bullet!

Had the suspension not entered his helmet there's a very good chance he would still be with us today!

As for a longer run-off area, how do you increase the run off area when there's a river behind the retaining wall? (Tamburello corner is at the top left of the picture) :
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Here's a classic example of where high friction tarmac would be far more beneficial than a gravel trap:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tClwyQxc7vk]James Calado flips at Magny-Cours, British F3 2010 - YouTube[/ame]

Had that been tarmac then the car would have stayed the right way up!

 

And just to get back on topic, apart from Cosworth, which engine supplier is going to leave F1?

Ferrari? : No!
Mercedes? : No!
Renault? : No!

Why?:

Ferrari pushed to get the V6 configuration instead of the straight 4 configuration and it is simply not going to abandon F1 anyway.

Both Mercedes and Renault have invested far too much money in developing their V6 Turbo engines to simply pull the plug now, so they're both going nowhere (as engine suppliers at least!).

And contrary to what Bernie seems to think, another manufacturer is actually going to join the list of suppliers, in the form of Honda, so his logic doesn't work out at all!

 

+1

It's another sunemana day!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Roger that!

By 'top manufacturers' do you mean auto makers?

As we know, they haven't (generally) fared too well over the years as entrants........ Stick to 'power trains' (as they're now called) and leave the cars to the guys in the Midlands maybe?

May be a tad harsh, but yeah, I agree - just because you can make your own track doesn't mean you should be allowed to!..... Could even make an argument that if you're 'alone' and put 2 off you should be penalized......

Cheers,
Ian

 

I understand what you guy's are saying BUT you guys don't understand what I am saying. You guys are talking simple gravel traps as they exist today. I am talking about a new technology of a deep trap filled with a mix of the right kind of size and shape gravel mixed with special polymer packing peanuts that would make a potting plant like vermiculite mix that would eventually slow the car and have it dig in but never to a point like current gravel of being so solid as to form a wall causing a flip. Even a biker flying into my mix would slide a little on a slightly spongey feeling material.

I remembered Piquets accident but had forgotten Gerhards. Amazing career he had.

As to Senna it seems as if it were the impact that caused his death, according to this, supply with some evidence to the contrary please;


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjSIZfG5rk]5/5 the death of Ayrton Senna - what NatGeo did not tell - YouTube[/ame]

 

The V6T engines are a total mistake. Like the old adage states "If it isn't broke don't try and fix it".

 

Or
If the ship's sinking don't bother with the deck chairs.