Election 2008

I'd have to disagree. While Reichert and Burner have looked like fools (specifically these last few weeks), I don't think Rossi has done much wrong. Gregoire keeps backing herself into corners, and Rossi takes advantage... I mean, Gregoire has lied so much this election it makes her look like a complete moron. I don't think Rossi has done anything wrong though... just my two cents.

I guess I should also tell you that I just turned 20-years-old, this is my first time voting... so don't be offended if anyone sees it the other way.

-Colin

 

We probably should keep the political chat in the political topic.

I've worked in politics -- worked as a Leg Corresp. in DC for Congress at one time. I know plenty of the players on both sides. Personally, I'm not a party guy (and I voted fairly evenly between parties this year.)

From an entirely political-marketing standpoint Gregoire has run a much better campaign than last time around. Rossi is running a much worse campaign than last time. The case against the BIAW and Rossi actually (from a pure legal standpoint -- not political) is extremely valid, although the penalty is simply a fine, so it's the proverbial cost of doing business. Neither candidate has specifically lied. Both have withheld full-truths, mostly because the electorate simply isn't smart enough to see the reasoning for the full stories behind decisions.

People will make their decisions on image, rather than reality. The realities are pretty simple: Gregiore is extremely bright and is very good one-to-one. She lacks charisma and team management skills. She is a realist, which means that she won't persue unrealistic dreams. Consequently, she is not the huge-spending liberal that some paint her as, because she knows that huge programs are unfeasible. This can make her short-sighted...it also means that she doesn't get the support of many organizations, because political orgs are almost always based on pie-in-the-sky fantasies.

Rossi, on the other hand, is a really nice guy who looks as good one-to-one as he does in front of groups. He's not booksmart or particularly street smart, and he has no vision, but works around this by working his butt off. When he says he'll do something for you, he means it -- and he will work with anyone and for anyone. He works for his friends (builders, real estate owners), because he has a strong sense of knowing who "made him". He is deeply religious, home schools his kids, and consequently tries to make "god's law" into state law -- and only Christian law, because he is a true believer of god's law over man's law. (That includes the US Constitution.) Unfortunately, even though he is religious and a great guy, his loyalty to people who aren't as scrupulous have been one of his liabilities. He got his start in the real estate biz with one of the northwest's shadiest guys, and still hasn't learned that people who claim to be his friends have no problem bending or breaking the rules...and that includes pushing Dino into higher positions of power for the sole purpose of using him.

So it breaks down more to critical thinker vs. religious-based doer. Neither is "bad"...it all depends on your viewpoint. It's like a Modial 8 vs. 400i -- both have faults and strengths, and both can be great in many circumstances.

 

I agree, but a governor/congress conversation wouldn't fit in a national politics board.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to leave that out- that is a valid point against Rossi.

I just don't like the fact the Gregoire has lied about Rossi, his campaign, etc, the Sonics situation, blatantly lied about numerous tax situations, and other smaller issues while in office. I just don't appreciate that in a leader.

 

And the Indian Casino money: www.casinochris.com

 

I only really know two things.....

1) I already voted for who I decided to vote for

AND

2) I'm REALLY tired of seeing and hearing political ads on TV and radio.



Thank God it will all be over soon...................
























































Until next time!!

 

Yeah, I gotcha there John. I just don't know much about it, don't know what to make of it. I think it's ridiculous that she takes our surplus and turns it into a deficit- when she could've been getting money to help out from all of the hoarding casinos (no offense to anyone). To be blunt, the Puget Sound, and the rest of the state are relatively wealthy compared to other states... there isn't any reason why we couldn't manage our money a little bit better.

No kidding! I was watching the Bulls/Celtics last night, and saw two anti-Reichert ads, followed by an anti-Burner ad... all back to back to back! If I'm going to watch commercials at least let it be something worth watching... ugh.

-Colin

 

I agree -- I'm so sick of the ads. It's great for the economy (production, acting etc...) but most of them are half-truths.

Just think...in two and a half days we'll be back to Viagra and Cialis ads

 

I hate 'em just as much.

I just remembered though, the two judges that are heading up that whole Rossi-court deal are both official Gregoire supporters...

Take care all, happy voting,
Colin

 

There has been no attempt to hide that the attorneys bringing the case are Gregoire supporters. That's just the way it works-- Rossi supporters wouldn't want to bring the case .

The more important issue is that Rossi and the BIAW specifically ASKED the state three years ago if what they were planning was legal. The state said "no" -- that he was a defacto candidate even if he hadn't announced. They did it anyway.

Again, this isn't a statement whether Rossi is a better or worse candidate. It just means that he and the BIAW are more than likely guilty, but the remedy is only a fine -- which is simply an added cost of the campaign. Whether the votes think that disqualifies or makes him more qualified is up to them.

And BTW -- Gregiore never lied about the Tribal Gaming issue. She just gave them exclusions from taxes, much like WA has given similar tax breaks to other large employers, such as Boeing, timber cos, Microsoft etc... Personally, I think the casinos should be taxed at a percentage equal to that of each group's non-Native American ownership, and that a deal to absolve them (or any company) from paying any taxes is absurd. But to say that Gregoire specifically lied about it is not factual.

 

Maybe not on the casino issues, but she has lied about a lot of aforementioned stuff, I don't really trust her.
-Colin

 

Colin,
I don't want to seem like I'm challenging for whom you plan to vote -- more as a marketing guy, I'm curious about why and about what you think she's lied.

So I'd love to hear -specifically- what you believe she said (and when, if you have it) and how that contradicts the truth. For instance, I could say that the advertisment that says Rossi "plans to lower the minimum wage" is a lie, because Rossi simply stated in a meeting (one at which a close friend of mine was attending) that he might support lowering the min. wage for those under 18, but he has no specific plan to bring that up. Of course, the ads from the Rossi camp that claim Gregoire lied about the deficit are also wrong, because the state currently doesn't have a deficit, although it is projected and is almost a certainty. But you can't have a deficit until the budget is proposed. Rossi ads have since changed to indicate it was "projected", not current.

But I think you'll find that if you get away from the advertisements and go specifically with statements and records, you'll have a hard time documenting a lie from Gregoire. If anything, her complete lack of charisma often shows its ugly head in the form of her saying something true when a good politician (like a Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan) would have said something fluffy and without merit or value -- or said nothing at all.

 

"Now is not the time to raise taxes"
Gregoire


We know what we have had for the last 4 years. I don't like it

 

One more day and no more freaking political adds until the next go around.
That alone is cause for celebration.

 

Any mention of State Income Tax, proposed or otherwise, is a HUGE NO VOTE from me.
Tax me on what I use (buy), that's fine. If I don't use, I don't pay.

 

Like the Rossi line about the Min. Wage (plus the "I would never lower the minimum wage on any ADULT in Washington state" statement he made in his rebuttal ad), the State Income Tax comment was totally out of context and Gregoire has no intention of bringing it to the table. She also would never support an income tax without elimination of sales tax, which won't happen. This actually what Republicans like Steve Forbes have been fighting for for decades -- a flat income tax with the removal of other taxes.

But again, if elected, she won't sign it into law, because nobody is planning on making it a bill in the Leg.

If anything Gregoire is a very conservative Democrat -- she favors things like tolls for bridges rather than taxes across counties and states, so that people who use things are the ones that pay for them.

Again, I'm not endorsing her (or even saying that I voted for her), but people should make their minds up on reality, not the television ads garbage that we're all bashing here.

 

Chris Gregoire STOLE both my parents’ retirement pension (through a law suit). As career educators in the state of Washington, she added the gross amount of theirs and other state pensioner’s retirement fund to Washington’s general fund (the money has now been spent), and capped gainsharing to 10% soon to be 8%. The system use to be a self supported system through wage deductions, and now it has ours and our children’s IOU’s to pay these folks. What a great way to say thanks to all the Firefighters, Police, Educators and other civil servants for a life time of service.

She’s a Door Knob!!

>The complaint, filed in King County Superior Court, challenges Engrossed House Bill 2391, which the Legislature passed in April. Gov. Chris Gregoire signed the bill today. EHB 2391 eliminates pension gainsharing, a retirement benefit the Legislature authorized in 1998. The elimination of gainsharing will cost teachers and other public employees $100 million in promised pension benefits over the next two years -- and billions over the next 25 years.<

http://www.washingtonea.org/index.php?view=article&catid=82&id=916&tmpl=component&print=1&page=&option=com_content&Itemid=47

 

She signed it into law, but other than that, it was legislation passed by the State Leg and State Senate:

HB 2391 Gain-Sharing (Rep. Fromhold & Rep Conway): Eliminates gain-sharing
after the 2008 event (an estimated $759.9M increase in plan benefits) and replaces
gain-sharing with: (1) The Plan 1 COLA is increased. Sets a target of adding 34
cents to the Plan 1 Uniform COLA by July 1, 2009. This 34 cent amount is assured if
the total of the 2008 gain-sharing distribution (presently projected at approximately
26 cents) does not need any more than 13 cents to reach the 34 cent target. With
this increase the Uniform COLA is estimated to be $1.75 per year of service per
month by July 1, 2009. (2) ERRF (early retirement reduction factor) is improved
starting January 2, 2008. Instead of the 3% reduction each year for members with at
least age 55 and with at least 30 years of service, the reductions are gradated in a
chart moving from a 1% reduction at age 64 up to a total reduction of 20% for a
member retiring at age 55. Reductions between age 65 and 60 are just 1% per year
and then reduction are 3% between age 60 and 55;
Retirement Age Current Law HB 2391
55 70% 80%
56 73% 83%
57 76% 86%
58 79% 89%
59 82% 92%
60 85% 95%
61 88% 96%
62 91% 97%
63 94% 98%
64 97% 99%
65 100% 100%
(3) New members in TRS and SERS are given the choice between Plans 2 and 3.
(4) Throughout the bill there are “Poison Pills”, meaning that if there are courts
rulings that gain-sharing issues must be reinstated then the trade-off provisions
could be taken away. The bill saves $92 million in 2007-09 . H. Rules (This bill is in
the House budget)
WASA and AWSP give support to this bill.


Are you sure you have the facts straight, JH355? I know that having a decrease in pension is horrible. This is happening across the board with unions, but also with privately-managed retirement accounts. When the economy and markets go down, something has to give (especially when people don't want their taxes to go up!)

 

I'm just being the devils advocate here.

You mean HER state income tax comment? What context was it in?

And that's a guarantee? .

Never and won't? In politics?

YET. What if they do make it a bill in the legislature? HOW DO YOU KNOW SHE WON'T VOTE FOR IT THEN?

As it should be.

Ah, reality. Who's reality? Hers? Unless you are inside her head how do you REALLY know what that is?

I agree that ads are ridiculous and it really would be nice to hear the truth but I haven't seen that happen politics for the 40+ years I've been watching it.

Just asking........................................

 

Spasso, no this is fine...being Devil's Advocate is good for discussion. Critical thinking is the most important skill set in politics and being an educated voter!!! (What happens when you don't have critical thinking is the initial Bagdhad occupation.)

Gregoire made last year in an interview with the editorial board of The Spokesman-Review newspaper in Spokane

When asked in that interview about an income tax, Gregoire said:

"We don't have an electorate out there that will support it right now. Clearly, when I go across the state, the support's not there. So much of it is, how are we going to educate them to the regressive tax system that we have in this state and how we need to have some sort of conversion over to a partial income tax. ... So now's not the time....

"But it's not as if it's not a good idea. It's not as if it's not one that we shouldn't pursue. It's one that we just have to keep holding hearings and let time pass and eventually I assume we're going to get there."

Yes. She thinks it is a good idea to get some tax fairness, one that doesn't "spread the wealth" in the opposite way (regressive vs. progressive). (And by the way -- I stated she wouldn't do it unless there was an "elimination", but she would require a "reduction" large enough to offset.) NO, she won't do it in the next four years. The electorate and legislature won't stand for it, nor will the counties given the current budget problems. Her statement is pretty clear -- it would take educating people before anything could be done. There's no money or time to do this.

(And for the record, I'm also against state income tax, even though a state income tax is fully deductable from federal taxes, but sales tax is not.)

I know she won't vote for it, because Governors don't get to vote.

It takes many years and multiple tries to get something like significant tax reform through a legislature. If they couldn't do it in the first four years, there sure as heck won't be any legislative support for such a measure when the economy is in the tank. (Legislators like to get reelected...it's a survival mechanism thing.)

Gregoire is too smart to push hard for something that has no chance in hell of passing, much less being effective in a current climate. Since she can only be there for one more term, that guarantees she will not be pressing for a state income tax. She has made this clear in every statement. She's not saying NEVER, because she would support it if the moons were in alignment. It is VERY CLEAR, though, that this won't happen in the next four years.

I'll remember that when you're paying $12 to cross Lake Washington on I90 or 520!!!

Actually, we're pretty lucky here. Both Rossi and Gregoire have reputations among the people who really know and work with them for saying what they believe (or rather, what they support or don't.) Neither are really slippery. They're both good people.

One thing I realized working in DC and meeting and chatting with politicians who drew the ire of rival party faithful is that just because someone doesn't share your view doesn't mean they are bad people or bs-ers. I disagreed with Jesse Helms on many individual issues, but he was smart, funny, insightful, honest, and a caring guy -- who also adopted a special-needs child. I found some Members with whom I agreed on policy to be arrogant lying scumbags. I seldom agreed with Joelene Unsoeld on issues, but in working for her, I learned that it was hard not to admire a woman who worked 20 hours each day and read and signed every letter that went to her constituents-- and ALWAYS told the full truth, even when it was unpopular. I know one Senator who churned through staff, because she treated them like dogs, yet always made herself out to be a champion of decorum and class. Policy-wise, she still is a bright shining star leader in one of the parties.

But again, you might not AGREE with Gregiore and Rossi, but neither are BSing you. The ad companies and PACs are doing plenty of that, though.

 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your previous comments and answering my questions.

BTW, seeing as I rarely use the 520 or I-90 bridge the 12.00 toll wouldn't affect me like those that commute there, (I used to everyday). If I still did I would take issue with it. My comment was inaccurate for the subject.

I guess the point of my comment was to express by disagreement with being forced to pay taxes on a project or service located 60 miles away that I would never use, like the proposed "Monorail to Nowhere".

 

Sammyb, you seem to know much more about it than I do, I’m a really simple person, what I know is;

1.Both my parents were educators for nearly ½ a century, and still volunteer their time. Keep in mind this era of educators didn’t make a lot of money unlike many educators today.
2.During their service, they didn’t have a choice whether or not pension money would be taken from their pay IT SIMPLY WAS.
3.Their pension system was 100% self supportive, no tax payer money was required. They currently no longer enjoy this security.
4.Chris G “Signed” into law the “Taking” (read Webster’s definition of THEFT) the proceeds of this account and SPENT the money, and inserted instead a tax payer IOU (that’s you and me).

I read what you wrote, and I didn’t understand any of it, how do you propose an 85 year old understand it, and more importantly, why should they have to. They played by the rules their whole life, and now face the loss of THEIR money, by our elected officials and Chris G filing lawsuits too legally take what doesn’t belong to her or the State.

Do I have my facts straight, 100% straight!!!, If pension money was lost due to a market downturn, or mismanagement, that’s the way the ball bounces, and they have the right to vote the management out, but that didn’t happen here. It was lost by Governmental THEFT, that’s not ok, and you should not attempt to confuse the two, unless you’re stating its ok for the Gov to take your money. If this is the case, where does it stop, IRA’s, Bank accounts, Property forfeitures, and pensions?

What needs to give is SMALLER Government whom SPEND LESS.

 

Um, she gave them a break = no taxes. And then they donated $650,000 to her campaign..... That smells.......

 

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