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Electric A/C install on my 328

Discussion in '308/328' started by Tony Andrews, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    easy since it it supposed to have a fan on it any way. just measured the dimensions of what i could fit in there. i also took off the back plate under right front fender well ( 9 screws i think??) which you have to do any way to access where the condenser is and replace the plate with some cool screen mess and it really flows the air now.... back to the fan the wiring is set up for one so just look around and you will find it... my goal is to get the lower air ducts located below the radio to blow out all the ac at 40 degrees so i can drive with top off here in Florida while my chest down is frozen... should be a hoot...
     
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  3. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    super easy.... go buy a piece of that screen that is used for debris blockage like they use on the front of some cars in front of the radiator.... i found mine and it had a chrome finish. then lay the plate that you took off from under the right front fender well on the screen mesh.... bend it to a rough outline... cut then fit so that you can put the original 9 screws from the plate into the screen and it will look great....
     
  4. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the response. I was really wondering about the cabin fans. that is the limiting factor I see, my a/c is pretty cold stock, but the volume of air is just so low. a stronger faster fan would be great.
     
  5. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    So we had to fix the vent controls that sit to the drivers right on the console. The ones that has a red and a blue digital read out. pops out... has little unlocks on each end under lip...Took it into my computer buddy and said... check all the solder connections and re-solder the electric boards on the inside. Put it back in and shut all upper vents off forcing all the air to go through the bottom vent... Put a 3" silicon t vent on right behind the vents below the radio. This ports the freezing a/c onto the the passenger and drivers ankles and knees. Even with the top off and windows down the lower body temp will still be very cold. To summarize i simply forced all the air pressure to come out of the bottom directed at occupants lower torso.
     
  6. gburkett

    gburkett Karting
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    May 25, 2012
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    Austin, Texas
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    Glenn Burkett
    So Tony I am completely fascinated with your electric A/C project. I have thought about doing this to a number of vehicles I’ve considered purchasing over the past few years but could not find parts or guidance or kits to put together a solution. Since my Tesla has it, I know it can be done but didn’t know about amps required etc.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  8. gburkett

    gburkett Karting
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    May 25, 2012
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    Glenn Burkett
    Could you post your source of kits , controllers etc? I only see a couple of part numbers in your previous posts. This would open up a number of possibilities here in the hot Texas heat. Also will you be upgrading your alternator , wasn’t sure where you came out on that. Very exciting stuff as I’ve failed to find the materials you are finding.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    This will be very interesting and, who knows, might trigger the entire "3x8 Nation" to switch to the system you are planning to install. One really good thing - it seems to me - about the electric compressor is that it would (I assume) run at a constant speed as opposed to the huge variation that exists in a belt driven-compressor. I admit that the 26A draw concerns me a bit with the OEM charging system but, of course, it wouldn't be 26 added to what's there now because you would loose the requirement to drive the AC clutch. I've seen clutches that draw from 4 to 8 amps so, assuming it's in that range, that 26A increase would be closer to 20 which doesn't sound so bad. People have installed stereo systems that probably pull that much or more! ;)

    Is there an existing adapter for the mounting of the compressor or will you be fabricating something?

    Please keep info/pics/part numbers coming! :)
     
  10. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
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    Nov 22, 2009
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    I have been researching this for a while now. I first learned about a different style of compressor aimed at the hot rod crowd a couple of years ago. the whole aspect of this is quite appealing. Without the need for the belt drive, the compressor can be placed somewhere else, perhaps tucked in the front to reduce the long distance plumbing and wiring going to the rear of the car. This probably means some weight savings (minor), less leak issues, more balanced weight distribution (very minor...) but some none the less. Also, no mechanical drag on the motor.

    Here was the unit i originally found.... https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/blog/12-v-air-conditioning-compressor-how-can-you-decide-if-one-is-right-for-you/

    Also, the bosch alternators can be mildly upgraded to handle the power.

    Anyone please correct me if I am wrong. Yes, I know that ferrari didn't design the car this way so its not the best way, it wont be a 100 point car and blah blah blah....

    Cheers,
    Spencer
     
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  11. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #34 mike996, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    "Without the need for the belt drive, the compressor can be placed somewhere else"

    LOL! Absolutely right! I totally overlooked the fact that an electric AC compressor no longer has to be mounted in the same location since a belt is no longer attached too it! It can be anywhere! DOH!!! :)

    If the compressor would fit up front somewhere, it would eliminate most of the hose and all of the "difficult plumbing" that results from the location of the fuel tank/belt driven compressor. I Like it!
     
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  13. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    I just did some more searching/research and though I wish/hope it will, I'm now seriously questioning whether the electric compressor can actually do the job:

    The ac compressor capacity in a honda civic is approx 12000 BTU per the Honda service manual. That is pretty small, bigger cars require 18,000 and SUVs even more.

    OK, SO, per the info I read on the compressors mentioned in this thread, the 12V 26 amp compressor is only capable of supporting around 4000BTU - approx 1/3 the capacity of what is necessary to cool a Honda Civic. Even larger electric compressors - drawing 40-50A (12v) only manage around 8000. I don't know what the BTU capacity of the OEM Ferrari setup is so MAYBE, if it's very low, there won't be an issue. As many of us have posited, we believe the evaporator air flow is the primary limitation anyway so maybe a 4k BTU compressor is sufficient with more air volume through the evaporator. Of course, more air volume through the evaporator will result in warmer air leaving the evaporator if the evaporator itself is not larger/more efficient and the compressor large enough to support it.

    Electric compressors that can support BTU capacity along the lines of belt driven compressors are 48vdc units, as are used in an all-electric car (Tesla, for example).

    So I'm now questioning the feasibility...

    Am I missing something? (I hope so)
     
  14. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    So yess here is the unit I purchased that has a 26 amp draw ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-JFSB116Z12-Compressor-with-controller-A-C-Car-Hot-Rod-Solar-6120btu-R134a/173911245462?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 ) There is another one at almost same price that uses a 55 amp draw with double the btu's. So for anyone who has a high amp/voltage alternator they can go that way to create a meat locker...lol... the 328 could have a high amp gen put on but not needed as I prefer my legs to be thawed not frozen. So i am going to put up a video of the whole process like i did for the the alternator change without dropping the motor. Today I am going to race car shop who uses this system on race cars where the driver wants to stay ice cold without sacrificing any engine power. Keep in mind i am not looking for more power but rather just to stay cold with top off and windows down. So depending on what they tell me may influence the install which will start next Tuesday. Thanks to everyone for your interest and stay tuned...
     
  15. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    YES... First where the air comes out is very important.. heat rises... so by filling the bottom of the cup with ice cold air the air at the top will drop in temp also. In my case I will port all the air pressure into the foot wells of each passenger.... Its only two seated... So with that in mind if you make all the cold air port into the cabin from the bottom & have enough air pressure ....you will have better results for a/c.
     
  16. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    Thanks for your comment I can see great minds think alike...
     
  17. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
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    From where does the power come to operate the compressor? You do not get something for nothing.
     
  18. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
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    Ron
    I agree, you don't get something for nothing. While your engine doesn't have to turn the air compressor, it has to turn the alternator (much hard) to generate the amperage required to run the AC.
    \On the + side, you can run the AC without the engine running. At least until your battery dies.
     
  19. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

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    If an electric compressor is feasible one failure mode is eliminated. Hermetically sealing eliminates the shaft seal which is a failure mode for belt driven compressors. The electric motor is cooled by the returning refrigerant.
     
  20. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    12V DC JFSB116Z12 Compressor with controller A/C Car Hot-Rod Solar 6120btu R134a
     
  21. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    12V DC JFSB116Z12 Compressor with controller A/C Car Hot-Rod Solar 6120btu R134a
     
  22. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    the power comes from the generator which on a 328 is 55 amps at idle. compressor only draws 26 amps sooooo... no the draw on the engine is nothing. Further the controller is designed to allow for solar hook up... think ahead of how to convert my targa top to removable solar panel........ here is the unit i will be doing the video install with..12V DC HB075Z12 Compressor with controller A/C Car Hot-Rod Solar 2890BTUs R134a
     
  23. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    12V DC HB075Z12 Compressor with controller A/C Car Hot-Rod Solar 2890BTUs R134a
     
  24. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Watching this thread with great interest!
     
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  25. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #47 mike996, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    Tony, I realize that you are specifically looking at keeping cool with the top off/windows down as opposed to the usual car method of everything closed up. So in that regard, I totally agree that if you bring the cold air in up high, it's immediately gone and can't "fall" to cool the cabin. But I think for "the rest of us" there has to be the ability to direct most of the air to the upper cabin where it will cool the hottest part of the cabin first and then "fall" to the floor. All car factory ac systems have the ability to direct air up/down/split as desired by the occupants. OF course the 3x8 has that ability (more or less) though the execution part of the requirement is lacking.

    To me the primary "thing" is to increase evaporator capacity/airflow. In that regard, the SPAL blower sounds like a major step in that direction. The electric compressor, if it really CAN supply sufficient capacity to do the job, would be a GREAT thing as well and I'm looking forward to your experience/videos.
     
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  26. Tony Andrews

    Tony Andrews Karting

    Oct 20, 2017
    79
    Merritt island Florida
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    Tony Andrews
    Thank you for your nicely thought out opinion that makes a lot of sense.. we will see if i am on to something ... jurys out
     
  27. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
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    The alternator is capable of putting out 55 amps at idle. Unless all electric power users are on full blast the alternator is not putting out 55 amps at idle. So when you add more load, the engine must work harder to produce more electrical power. The alternator pulley requires more torque when there is more electrical load. If the alternator puts out 55 amps at idle, where is it going when no auxiliaries are on? I don't think the CPU that controls the engine does requires 55 amps. It would have to be dissipated somewhere. You would need solar to augment otherwise the engine provides the extra power to run the compressor.
     
  28. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2019
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    An alternator only generates the power required. That's why we are using alternators instead of generators.

    Unless you're towing a rather large flatbed trailer, solar power is meaningless for this application. The power density of typical solar panels might be 150 watts per meter in direct sun (less at an angle) so to get 55 amps at 12v (660 watts) out of solar panels, you'd need something like 5 square meters of panels, and they only generate that kind of power under ideal conditions (direct sun, clear day).
     

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