Electrical Gremlin?

I have an '01 360 Spider and have had a second accurance of an elctrical issue. While driving, the all the dash lights come on and ignition dies. The first time, a few months ago. I rolled to a stop and it restarted and thought it was a one off. Last night, twice the dash lights came on, the car kept going (even though I believe the ignition dies and came back) then some of the dash warning lights stayed on such as "Suspention Malfunction", What looks like a heated mirror indicator, This was after the soft top light and ASR flashed for a second or two. The second time, last night, I was just parking and the engine died and it went into "Neutral". I started it, finished parking and went into a restaurant for about 1 hour. Came out and drove home fine. No lights. Any ideas what would cause this? I might ad, that sometimes, when cold, I start it, turn the ignition on, then go to start and nothing. Key back to off and on again and starts fine. I don't think it's related but maybe an ignition switch?
Anyway, thoughts on the main issue? Common on 360's? A fix?
Thanks for any advice.

 

I can't see it being an ignition switch problem. The instrument panel requires ignition power to function.

A lot of odd vehicle functions are controlled by the instrument panel (e.g. mirror heat timing). Other than an instrument binnacle fault, I can't think of anything other than the mirror heat switch would make the light illuminate.

Anyway, check the basics. Make sure battery connections are tight. Check battery and alternator voltages. How old is the battery?

 

I'd start by checking the static voltage of the battery after the car has been sitting over night. Use a digital volt meter and see where things stand.

Ray

 

Yes, Ian. You may have hit on something. I normally have the car on a battery tender but I didn't for two days since I thought I'd drive it again. And, earlier in the day, I did what you shouldn't do and lowered the top without starting the car. I'm one of those guys that struggles between an extra start up without driving it and dropping the top without starting it. So, the battery could have been a little low, (but issue didn't happen till about 6 miles of driving).
Ray, I wish I saw your comment last night. I was thinking a week battery and decided to put it on the tender last night. But, I'll unplug it today and test after a few days of sitting.
I don't believe the battery is too old since the PO told me how much he paid for it (optima). But, some months back, one of the tender wires broke and the terminal that it was on was not very tight.
I'll test in a few days and post.
Thanks for the input. Much appreciated,
Bob

 

The optima battery quality has fallen in recent years. Search the forum for "i48CS" and you'll find a lot of info.

Ray

 

OK, I have some results. Maybe, not useful but, never the less. The car sat for a few days and I checked battery voltage today and is 12.62 volts. I started the car and now shows hovering around 14.50 volts so alt is working. After a few minutes, I shut the car off and now battery shows 12.9 volts. So, the alt added about 0.4 volts in a few minutes. The battery must have lost about 0.4 volts over a few days but, the first time, I lowered the soft top so would have lost more than that to "maybe" cause the issue. I'm not sure the age of the battery. It's difficult to get into the passenger seat, while the car is in the garage, I can only open the door about 12" and I have a project car on the other side. If I back out into the drive way, There's a car hauler on one side and another car on the other side, and same issue and I don't like to work on cars in the street. I'll check battery age when I have other cars moved out of the away.
Hum, the I48CS battery at $2400? I saw a post were it solves the problems on a 458. Or, you can get 8, $300 batteries that would last quite a while, or 23, $100 + batteries from Walmart. By the way, we have a 2013 911 that I got a Walmart battery for at $120. (which I heard have good reviews) and the car sits for two to three weeks at a time and starts up every time, for more than a year, so far.
So, I'll keep it on the tender and not open/close the soft top (without starting the car), and see what happens next time.
Thanks for the responses. I think you have hit on the right answer (or cause).
Bob

 

12.62 volts is about 90% which is totally fine; anything over about 12.70 is generally considered 100% charged.

As you state, 14.50 volts is the output from the alternator.

The i48CS is about as good as you can get, but yes it does cost a pretty penny. Costco sells a very nice battery for the 458 also.

Basically it just boils down to whether saving $2000 is worth having to use the tender all the time or not.

Ray

 

Seems to me that the 360 does use regular (not AGM/OptimaRed) batteries? If correct the alternator is not likely to properly take care of thin lead plate batteries, which makes a battery tender absolutely mandatory.

AGM batteries resting voltage is 13.0-13.2 volts (not 12.7). On the optima website, this is clearly stated : "we'll give you one simple number to remember- 12.4 volts (...) below 12.4 volts, sulfation will begin to form, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan." (quoting optima).

Even if a regulator upgrade is possible I would personally not install an AGM batteries in a car that's not designed to handle them: more thin lead plates crammed in the same small space means higher cranking power (for sure) BUT ALSO reduced life. This can be mitigated with better quality control, and a smart voltage regulator (that takes care of sulfation) and/or a battery tender. Nevertheless if the lead plates inside the battery are twice more thin you cannot expect them to last longer. That's just as simple as that.

 

Wow! Some interesting facts on batteries that I never knew about. So, it sounds like an AGM battery is better than the standard Walmart unite, but maybe not as good as the $2400 battery. I see the AGM batteries in the $200 to $400 range so maybe, if I continue with this issue, I will go to as an option.
Having the car on a tender is not much of an issue for me. Kinda got used to it and didn't know there was another option. The car's been on the tender for a few days and thinking I'll take it to a wine pick-up-party next week. And, I put the top back up with engine running. That should be my test.
Thanks all, for the great info. So much knowledge in here.
Bob

 

UPDATE: I had a chance to test out my two day tended battery on the same route as last time. Half way home, dash lights came on and engine cuts out. It started up on it's own, since it was still in gear. Then it did it a few more times, seams to be at lower speeds, stopping at a light or pulling away from a light. A couple times it would turn off and on and causes the car to jerk a bit. I thought, I'd stop and get gas and see if it "reset", and backing up to the pump, it died and went to neutral. It continued all the way home (just a few miles). So, I will remove the battery and if both terminals are tight, I'll get a new one. If it's not the answer, I have a Porsche race car that currently has no battery so the old optima can go into that. Prefect!

OK, I've been researching batteries and there's so much, it's getting overwhelming. So, I look for the top AGM batteries and this one shows as "best".
XS Power D3400 XS Series 12V 3,300 Amp AGM High Output Battery with M6 Terminal Bolt
Raemin, does this one past the smell test? I can order off Amazon if I can't find it local, but we're going on a short vacation so when we get back.
Thanks for the help and advice.
Bob

 

Sorry we do not have this brand here in France. No idea about their true quality. To be frank I would not take for granted their claim of 3300Amps cranking power.

I would buy a regular (non AGM) battery from a known brand with honest figures. I've been happy with Bosch (made by Varta) and Fulmen (made by Exide) and even Yuasa. On this Forum, some members do recommend Interstate batteries.

If this does not cure your problem, I would try to clean all the electric connectors and re-connect them with dielectric grease.

 

Ops, I was confused about the AGM batteries thinking higher resting voltage was better. I did get the Optima out today and it's only 1 year old (photo). Connections seem firm and clean.
I've been searching for Exide, Bosch and Interstate and only fine AGM batteries. see below. All these fit a 360.
I'm guessing, these are not the first choice?
Thanks for hangin' in there.
Bob


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Remember I do not have your car, so I can just comment on what's written in the paper, not from first hand experience on the subject

The correct battery for your car is the FIAMM VR760, unfortunately all the VR760 that show up on the net are the Black EcoBoost variant, not the plain grey one as used by Ferrari. As Fiamm batteries were bought by Delphi, I presume that they also changed the sub-contractor. These new batteries do have a casing that is a close sibling to the "made in Romania" Rombat Pïlot. (Rombat makes OEM batteries for several european auto-manufacturers)

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As the original batteries is NLA, it seems a Bosch S5 008, Exide Premium EA770 or equivalent would make it do. These are regular NOT AGM. Both are worth $100~$150. If you want AGM, you could try Interstate which recommends an AGM battery from their line-up.

1) the cranking power of the interstate AGM battery is 800A, which is just 2.5%~5% more than the other two I've quoted
2) when charged by your alternator, this battery will only be filled at 95% (due to the low voltage output)
3) this AGM battery is ~$400

Hope this helps, I think there is not much I can add...






(PS: reading my entire posts, I just come to the conclusion that I've spent way to much time chasing the electrical Gremlins of my own car....)

 

Chasing these gremlins seems to have made you a genius on batteries. You've supplied me with enough information were I think I can make a decision on my own. You've been more than patient and if your every in Northern California, drinks are on me. And if I'm every in France, drinks are on me. When were back from our trip, I'll research each battery, and I have a friend that works at an auto supply store and I'll see what they can get or I'll order online. I also have a friend that works at a race shop and I'll see what they use in their race cars or if they have connection to these batteries. They used to get support from the Porsche factory so I would think they have connections.
Again, I appreciate all that helped. I'll post results, in a week or two, when I get the new battery.
Bob

 

I finally have an update: I decided on a battery, from "Normal Guy, Super Car". A Ferrari Youtube guy that sells many Ferrari parts. They advertise an Antigravity battery that has a brain that, if there is a power drain, the battery goes to sleep. And, if the battery goes dead, there's a remote to push and it will start. And, it very light. So, I ordered it and it arrived a few days ago. Installed it and started the car. First of all, that occasional (when dead cold) start problem where you turn on the ignition, then go to crank the motor and "nothing". That didn't happen. I didn't drive it that day, just checking to make sure it worked. A few days later, started right up again and went for a short drive. All electrics work perfect. So, I have two prefect cold starts and one drive with no issues. I did notice one thing. Seems, the clutch, may have an electrical memory. It engages much slower than before. I'll research that over the next few days and I have a drive planned with friends, in a couple weeks.
Thanks to al that contributed. Seems, you got the right answer on the first try. Take care.


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Antigravity is a great choice. I am about to purchase one for my Speciale. A good friend of mine designs, builds and maintains electronics systems on high end racing yachts. He has had very good luck with the Antigravity batteries. Be sure that you get the CTEK battery maintainer specifically for Lithium-Ion batteries and do not use the one for lead-acid batteries.
For all of my other cars I have been using only flat plate AGM batteries for at least 10 years. They are completely compatible with cars designed for flooded batteries. They do not corrode battery terminals or battery boxes and for this reason I do not believe any collectable car should ever use a flooded cell battery again. My go to has been Exide Edge FP-AGMs, but they vary over the years in what sizes they have available, so I have used others also. I just yesterday replaced a 9-1/2 year old Exide in my 2006 Ford F-350 with an Odyssey Extreme because I could not find an Excide. I have not used Odyssey before, but I am very impressed with the amount of technical information on their website. They seem like a good company. I think that the Odyssey batteries may be made by Exide.

 

I'm kind of under the impression, these batteries don't need a tender. Like the I48CS, it won't go dead. Since it's a "smart" battery, it supposed to go to sleep if there's a drain or something similar. Then, you have a remote that you push and then it will start your car. I will do more research from the place I purchased it and see what they say about tenders. But so far, I'm very pleased with it. For $750, it should do quite a bit.
I also, just learned how to do a "throttle Learn", which should reset the PIS on the clutch which seems to have been erased when the battery was disconnected.
Thanks for all the input on my post.
Bob

 

Interstate MTP48/h6 is the battery you need. Be sure your charging system is up to snuff and not crapping out when hot. 360's had an alternator/battery cable harness issue that was taken care of by an updated part. Be sure yours has been updated.

 

I think that is more for emergency use and is probably not good for the battery life. I would not depend on it. Also, if this does happen, the battery will cut off power to the car, and everything will reset as if you had disconnected the battery.

Whether or not you need a tender depends on how you use the car. If it is a daily driver then you don't need one. If you drive it every weekend, then probably not. If the car sits for two weeks or more, then I would have one. I do not know what the parasitic draw on a 360 is, but 458s are notorious for killing batteries when left without a tender.

As I understand it, lithium-ion batteries like to be stored at half charge. This is pretty hard to do in most applications. To do this, you would need to run the battery down to half charge, then disconnect it completely, then charge it back up before you start the car again. Not practical for a car. I think a good compromise is to get a lithium-ion compatible tender and use it when the car might be parked for more than a week.