Electrical Question | FerrariChat

Electrical Question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Harta320, Feb 2, 2006.

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  1. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    I have recently noticed that my gauge indicators (temp, oil) rise with increased RPM. The lights inside and outside of the car also become brighter with increased RPM. Is this normal? I am fairly sure that this was not been happening before.

    I have new fuse blocks similar to Birdman's design that I made myself. The alternator was rebuilt by a local shop so I am betting that the diodes and the voltage regulator was not changed. Most of the relays are original and I have noticed that one of the wires going to the lights relay get very hot. Batt new and connectors nice and clean.

    Thanks
    Bill
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    What is the voltage across the battery at say idle and 3000 RPM? It shouldn't be exceeding ~14.5VDC -- if it keeps increasing with RPM you'll need more alt work.
     
  3. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    I have not yet checked the voltage across the Batt while running the engine. Plan on doing that first thing in the morning. What does it mean if the voltage goes goes above 14.5 V? What voltage range am I looking for?

    Thanks
     
  4. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    Perhaps check your ground strap between engine and chassis - will likely be low down going from the block to chassis rail near the LH rear lower wishbone. These get corroded and then all kinds of funky things like you are describing start to happen....good luck tracking this one down!
     
  5. Dubai Vol

    Dubai Vol Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    1,418
    back in Dubai
    Full Name:
    Scot Danner
    Good advice above, and maybe I can provide a little background to help you understand more about what may be going on.

    First off testing the system voltage while the car is running is a good way to see what's happening with your electrical system. The variation in light brightness and gauge readings you are seeing is a symptom of varying voltage. The two possibiliteis are:

    1: at idle the voltage is normal, 13-14V, and rises too high when the engine is turning faster. If this is the case, your voltage regulator is not doing its job of maintaining the voltage at normal. I have had this experience, and it's a bad thing because too much voltage will start frying stuff in short order. And yes, "frying stuff" IS in fact the correct technical term :)

    2: More likely, at least in my experience, is that the voltage is low at idle and rises to normal when the engine (and thus the alternator) is turning faster. As pointed out above, poor contact of ground wires is a very common cause of this problem. But a bad contact in other wires on the charging system could also be the culprit. Any bad connection adds resistance to the circuit and causes a voltage drop, by that classic hit formula known as Ohm's Law: V=IR

    As I am fond of saying, if I had a dollar for every alternator, starter, and battery that have been replaced due to bad connections, I'd be driving a Ferrari! So if you find 2 to be the case, the FIRST thing to try is removing, cleaning, and tightening every connection in the charging system, which includes the battery terminals, the connections on the alternator, and all the grounds you can find.

    Good luck with it: electrical problems can be a real pain. (Says the retired Senior Electrical Power Generation Equipment Repairer! MOS 52D20 for those who speak Army)
     
  6. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Yup. Your VR is being grounded, and you are frying your battery. Been there, done that. My VR uses 2 insulated screws and after 30 years the insulation became brittle and was grounding it. Yours may be the same design? If you it's an easy DIY although there are a few tricky bits, like using a paper clip to mount the brushes back.

    Ken
     
  7. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Thanks for all of the suggestions.

    I put my car through a fairly extensive rehab last winter. There are not that many connections that I have not cleaned and or replaced. This will take some time I am afraid.
     
  8. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Alright I have the Voltages and I don't think it looks that good. I checked the voltages at the Batt post.

    Just Batt car off :13.0 v
    Car running at idle Alt light on :12.7 v
    Car running at idle Alt light out :14.5 v
    Car running at 2000 rpm :17.5 v I think we have a winner!!

    So is this is a VR problem? If so where can I get one. Thanks

    Quick question. Could this over voltage mess with the Digiplexes and or timing. I have been chasing a slight miss in the ignition since I bought the car.


    Bill
     
  9. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Just had the batt tested and checks out fine.
     
  10. Dubai Vol

    Dubai Vol Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    1,418
    back in Dubai
    Full Name:
    Scot Danner
    Yow! that's a BAD voltage regulator. DO NOT run the car until you get it replaced, you will burn up a lot of expensive stuff.
     
  11. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    That pretty much confirms what I said: your VR is shorting to ground. The alternator is sending full voltage to the battery and electrical system. Keep it up and you'll fry your battery and any sensitive electronics.

    Tightening connections won't fix it. You have to take out the alternator, take out the VR, look at the two screws that are insulated and change them. I've never been inside a Ferrari alternator but it's likely similar to mine in this regard.

    Ken
     
  12. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Thanks Ken

    So you think my VR is grounding and is still good? What would be an indication of the VR needing to be replaced? Ugg, out to the garage to dismantle my car! LOL

    Bill
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,220
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Your voltage regulator is stuffed man. Im not sure on your model of alternator, im assuming its a bosch?? The VR maybe an internal or external one. If its an external one,you may be able to leave the alternator in the car and just take the VR out and replace it yourself. If its internal,best remove the alt and take it to the auto electrician that rebuilt it for you. The question is why didnt the guys that rebuilt it,replace the regulator?? They should have done a bench test,which would have told them that the diode pack was working fine, and maybe the VR was fine then(brushes ok,voltage fine ect....)but usually the VR should be replaced everytime an alternator gets rebuilt?? :( Where i come from anyways. :D Good luck friend

    *note-maybe you should take the alternator elsewhere this time* :D
     
  14. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Alt. out and was checked. Bad VR. Using a different rebuilder this time.

    Thanks everyone

    Bill
     
  15. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I just hope you didn't have to spend $3-400 for this the second time around. The rebuilder made a simple mistake by using a non insulated screw I bet; two are and one isn't if it's like my Delco (it may not be). He should fix it for free. He obviously didn't bench test it; the VR is likely good if it was new. It doesn't get ruined by what happened so he better not charge you for a new one!

    Ken
     
  16. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Ken, it should not cost me that much. I yanked the alt out myself so other than a few bloody knuckles and a few flying cuss words I am only out some time. It probably is the insulation like you said but I think my VR is original so I am going have the new shop replace it. Should not cost me that much. Well, then there is the blood money to put it back in. LOL

    Bill
     
  17. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Bill Smith
    Thanks everyone for the help. New VR cost me 65 bucks. Not to bad. Car is running great and the gauges are back to normal.

    I have another electrical question. After running around tonight with the lights on I noticed that the lights relay is getting fairly warm and one of the wires in the back side of the relay panel leading to the light relay is fairly warm also. For some odd reason the window realy is hot as well and the wire leading to it on the back side of the relay panel is warm also. These 2 wires are white and go directly to the large junction box at the bottom of the relay panel. I do have old relays and plan on changing them. I have opened the relay up just to take a look inside and there was no noticable corrosion. Should the relays be getting warm like this? If not what are some of the things I need to check besides making sure everything is properly grounded?

    Thanks
    Bill
     

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