Elevrovalves removed | FerrariChat

Elevrovalves removed

Discussion in '308/328' started by paceme, Oct 18, 2016.

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  1. paceme

    paceme Rookie

    Sep 15, 2012
    6
    1981 308 GTSI us version, After removing the electrical part of the 3 electrovalves (vacuum components removed prior), it started causing havoc with the ignition, cold start up light not working ,alternator light on and running real bad. I plugged the electric connections back on the electrovalves and the car ran great (no vacuum connected). I just wanted to remove them being they weren't controlling anything. After looking at the wiring diagram I don't understand how removing them would effect the digiplex like that. Need help understanding that circuit. The water temperature switch in the overflow tank is still operational and should still work for the two timing maps cold and hot. Does the digiplex terminal #6 need the a positive voltage to the pink wire to work on the cold map? Then gets grounded for hot map?
     
  2. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    My '82 308 GTSi
    One solenoid works the egr
    One solenoid works the air injection
    One solenoid works the fast idle air valve

    I have the first two disconnected and removed. The third one I have in service. I limit the air valve by a tab I made by the actuation arm so the idle does not race.
     
  3. paceme

    paceme Rookie

    Sep 15, 2012
    6
    I'm guessing the fast idle electrovalve is completing the circuit, if that was removed you may have similar issues.
     
  4. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    I can understand the cold light not working. The alt light on and running rough could be low voltage to the system causing low spark or havoc with the digiplex. Put a volt meter on it.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,866
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes. When cold, the water thermoswitch is open = the voltage on the SN (pink-black) wire goes to +12V (by being connected to the R, red, wires on the electrovalves via the coils inside the electrovalves) = "tells" the DigiPlexes "I'm cold - use the cold map"' and turns "on" the cold-running light in the dash. When the coolant heats up and the water thermoswitch closes = the SN wires goes to ground (two of the electrovalves energize), the dash light goes "off", and the DigiPlexes know to use the "warm" map.

    When you unplug both electrovalves that have a R and SN wire = you remove the +12V source to the SN wire = DigiPlexes always think "warm".

    That said, I've got to agree with Wayne's point -- although you need to be careful with the unplugged harness ends to not let the terminals touch anything.
     
  6. paceme

    paceme Rookie

    Sep 15, 2012
    6
    Yes this all sounds correct. Is there something I could jump the red and pink terminals at the cold start and air injection locations replacing the electrovalves to complete the circuit and have the digiplex work properly? I was thinking a 40 ohm resistor to simulate the electrovalve or a 8 amp fuse, it seems that just jumping it would cause a direct short when grounded by the hot switch positions. And yes the charging light may have been something to do with low battery, (this was after removing and cleaning injectors) may have needed some time to settle in. Now that it is running good I'll have to remove the plugs again and see if it does the same thing. This time I'll have a timing light on to see what's going on.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,866
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Correct, you can't use a direct short (nor a fuse) as the current would be way too high when the water thermoswitch closes. Measure the resistance of the coil inside the electrovalve (IIRC, it might be something like 150 Ohms) and then buy a similar value resistor that can handle the power (maybe 2W?) and use it to connect the R wire to the SN wire of one of the electrovalve harness connectors. The calculations would be something like:

    V = I * R (for 12V and 150 Ohms, I = .080A)

    Power = V * I (for 12V and .08A = .96W -- therefore, use maybe 2W capacity for margin)

    Of course, if the resistance of the electrovalve coil is something other than ~150 Ohms, just redo the calculations to get the power rating needed for the resistor.
     
  8. paceme

    paceme Rookie

    Sep 15, 2012
    6
    I had the chance to do some experimenting. With electrovalves connected, I started cold and the timing was -10 deg. w/vacuum advance line connected and ran ok. Then shut it off (still cold) and disconnected the electrovalves, started it up and the timing was all over the place and running bad. Seems like the digiplex, without either +voltage (cold) or ground (hot) to the #6 terminal, doesn't function properly or run either timing map. This explains the bad running after disconnecting the electrovalves. At that point with terminal #6 open the digiplexes go crazy.
    Thanks Steve for your input on resolving this issue and helping me understanding the wiring.
    The electrovalves measure 50 Ohms so after using your calculations it seems like I need a 50 ohm 2.88w resistor or round up to 4w for margin. I will wire one into both the fast idle and air pump terminals just incase one were to go bad so as not to be stuck on the road.
    Thank everyone for the help provided, as this was my first posting and have been helped many times by others that posted prior.
     
  9. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,550
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    maybe you can post some pictures ? ;)
     
  10. paceme

    paceme Rookie

    Sep 15, 2012
    6
    I was thinking this morning that instead of using the resistors to retain the cold timing map on the digiplex, just use a solid jumper at the water temp sensor to have only the warm map used at all times and leave the electrovalve wires open and taped. The reason for my thoughts are, that is it realy needed the additional 7 deg. of timing retard down to -10 deg. now that the crazy fast idle valve is removed? Also this timing map is only used for a short partial warmup time anyway.
    Is there any advantage or need to retaining the cold timing map?
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,866
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    One other thought here is that the wire in the electrovalve coil may heat up slightly when in use with a real current and have a higher functional resistance (when you measure the resistance of the coil with the multimeter, it is done at a very low current). Just mentioning this as it would be best to use as large a resistance value as possible to minimize the power wasted (and the power rating/size of the resistor). If you place 12V on the electrovalve coil and measure the current, the functional resistance could be calculated -- just a thought...
     
  12. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,550
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #12 ME308, Oct 20, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    this would be the easiest way to disable the fast-idle-system (and is what most people do)
    in this case you would loose the yellow cold-light function in the dash

    so instead of jumping the switch, you can leave it connected and just swap the vacuum hose on the cold air valve from the electrovalve directly to manifold vacuum -
    this way you maintain the yellow cold-light function in the dash


    no, not needed at all
    I have thrown out the catalytic converters and de-activated this fast-idle-system 10 years and 40K miles ago ...
    and I can tell you from first hand experience that there is absolute no disadvantage by doing this


    if you keep the fast idle sytem and you think environmental, yes (heating up the cats faster, less emission etc.)

    if you remove the fast idle system, no

    the cold-start air valve concept was only added for U.S. emissions compliance
    to disable it, will not harm your engine - no other Ferraris of this era had this modification in any other world markets
    .
    .
     

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