End of Ferrari as we know it........?

Having owned both a 1979 308 GTB and a 1989 328 GTB, I can tell you there is no comparison in build quality and driving experience - the 328 is just a much, much better car. The -only- thing a 308 -may- have going for it is the sound of carbs behind the driver's ear. Well, carbs ain't ever coming back, so that's a no go.

The real demarcation point is when the computers and chips started taking over the driving of the cars. Unfortunately, that's probably here to stay.

Styling seems to be about the only variable in which Ferrari has any real control over. For my taste, I don't like current stylings much, but that's just my opinion. Tastes vary and if Ferrari can sell everything it makes, they probably don't care what other people think.

What I think is gonna confront Ferrari most is that the technology has surpassed human capabilities. When Kia sells a monster car for $30k that looks great, drives great, there's not going to be much room for Ferrari to sell $300k cars for long.

Times are a changin'...adapt or stock up on affordable 80s-90s Fcars so you can drive a dinosaur till you die.

 

They haven't at all though, just maybe 95% of drivers. You can still disable basically all the aids and make it drive just like a pure car. If you want to have a safety net, you can do that also. If you want to have a lot of help, you can do that as well. Seems like a pretty solid compromise to me. The ever increasing weight is really the only issue, but I would guess Ferrari will go CF tubs, or aluminum/cf composite, on the next gen and maintain or cut the weight at that point.

Just no way. First of all, there are more billionaires and millionaires than ever. China will surpass the US actually in billionaires in the next 5-10 years. A lot of people buy on status alone, so there will be no shortage of buyers. The aids allow hardcore and casual drivers the same access to the cars despite the insane performance. People shopping for Ferraris, McLaren, Porsche, etc are not cross shopping 30k cars, regardless of how nice they look or what kind of performance they deliver - for a variety of reasons that will vary across buyers.

I agree - except late 70s for me ; )

 

And to a large extent, "they" were right every time.

 

A part of the build process has slowly been moving away from being "man" made over the last thirty years. That long ago everything was hand built and assembled. Then welding robots came in and starting assisting in the task, paint robots and other aides have been introduced. However last I saw they are still the only major manufacturer with their own foundry, still hand assembling every engine by a single individual and still producing the majority of their own parts. If using some assisting helps them produce a slightly more reliable and consistent build, that's ok. If they share a platform, potentially ok as long as the development of the chassis or frame is all done for the Ferrari and then morphed over to other models.

It's hard to know exactly what will come with that announcement, but I for one will wait to see.

Finally, the biggest gain you get from Ferrari is he closeness of the race engineering to the car manufacturing. As long as that stays in place they will remain special.

 

Unfortunately I agree. The company survives technically but for me it loses some mojo.

Would I love it if someone handed me the keys to a 458? Absolutely. Am I excited about the prospects of the rumoured new Dino. For sure. Would I trade in my '83 Mondial for either of those cars. Nope. Different era, different vibe, different car. I prefer the Enzo era cars.

Now if someone wants to trade my Mondial for a 275 GTB/4 NART...I say let's do it!

 

LOL!

Yes, all those world championships and many, excellent road cars. Ferrari has really been in a downward spiral for so long. Let's just hope it continues.

 

I think they're all great cars, but so are the very low production Audi R8 V10 and a Porsche 991 GT3 RS.

The Ferrari legend originated with very exclusive road cars, impossibly (by the day's standards) powerful, owned for the most part by those connected enough to have one. The LaFerrari is probably the only Ferrari that comes close to that in the current lineup. Now you can buy late model Ferraris (and certainly Gallardos) all day on eBay.

Performance-wise, technology has almost completely leveled the playing field. Back in 1980, the Boxer and Countach lorded over the sports/exotic car world -- nothing else could touch them. That's just not the case anymore.

The "exotic" factor has also been gone for a while. The Gallardo shares so many critical components with Audi that to me it was starting to seem like a badge engineering exercise. And I can't even keep up with the number of low, wedge-ish cars playing in the "exotic" space. The recent Lambos, recent McLarens, and recent Ferraris are all pretty much cut from the same wind-tunnel-influenced cloth. I wouldn't call any of them landmark designs. (Again, the Boxer/308 and Countach were ridiculously low compared to anything else of their era.)

What Ferrari (and Lambo, and Porsche) used to have made them special and distinctive. No one else could have built a Countach, or a 246, or a 911 RS 2.7. The Germans wouldn't have tolerated a car as dumb (in a good way) as the Countach, and the Italians wouldn't have built a car with an air-cooled engine hung out over the rear wheels. By the time the 360 and Gallardo rolled around, Ferrari and Lamborghini were making comfortable cars that could be daily-driven, and Porsche moved on to water-cooling and joined Ferrari in making plasticky interiors that didn't last -- as well as 911s that weren't out to kill you, and which your mom could take to the store with no drama.

So, yeah, I think all three marques make much "better" cars now, but the myth and legend ended for me a few decades back. All you have to do is watch and listen as someone starts up a Daytona, and you'll know. Ferrari won't build something as awesome and flawed as that ever again.

I think it may be that the difference between "performance cars" and easily attainable normal everyday cars is evaporating. It's just not that hard to get 0-60 in 5.0 seconds or less these days in a relatively affordable car, but I suspect electric vehicles will cause most buyers to lose patience with the sluggishness of internal combustion-powered cars off the line, as well as their limited life and high maintenance.

 

Hmmmm...you'll never have to take all the batteries out of a combustion car, recycle them, and replace them at a huge cost. That is an unavoidable reality as the electric cars age. They also lose their range over time - which is already poor to begin with as of current technology.

Small displacement turbo diesels have plenty of torque and power for the average driver and get amazing mileage and range. I fail to see how electric is going to be so appealing, to kill off combustion engines. Couple that with advances in composites and you will also have lower weight cars coming as technology progresses, so 0-60 times will continue to drop.

Yes, there is the whole "green" argument, which is largely BS when you factor in the total carbon footprint - source of the power (largely coal in the US still), mining the materials for the batteries, and the energy to recycle them. Diesel takes far less energy to create. Fossil fuels will run out at some point yes, but there are already synthetic diesels like the one Audi is working on - made from water and air.

I'm still not sold on electric cars ever being the standard. I think combustion engines will last far longer than anyone expects and then we will have synthetics when the crude is gone. It's also good to see that the major car manufacturer haven't given up on hydrogen - most recently Lexus showing a hydrogen fuel cell car.

 

Thirty years from now people will be on here bemoaning the changes in the new 2046 models and longing for the days of 458's, FF's and Calis.

As some song goes, "These are the good ole days".

 

Don't pass up a Ferrari factory tour if available, The tour of the F1 shop and customer race cars waiting for a weekend run is worth seeing. And Maranello is a nice town to visit.

 

I fully agree with you, we did the full tour in September and would highly recommend it to anyone that has not done it. When we were there they had a client that was running his FXX K around Fiorano, it was epic!

 

What I would be more interested in seeing is the Enzo Ferrari museum in Modena and the Galleria Ferrari...

 

Yes. The Motezemolo cars will be held near and dear to the hearts of some of the Ferrari faithful as the end of an era. Just as the Enzo cars were after his loss. LDMs last greats were the PF designed NA 458s, F12s and its SP variants, and the LaF. He did not show up for the F60 reveal - a sweaters-only affair. He was not perfect but did have the passion as the last Enzo relevant man in charge. It is now the SM era.

 

My interest in Porsche died with their declaration to "build one less car than the market will bear" and platform sharing within VW. My interest in cars will die if Ferrari sell-out in similar fashion.

 

Actually the Maserati engines are fabricated at the Ferrari plant in Maranello. They are then shipped out to the Maserati factory. That's where ithe association begins and ends.

 

Wasn't there a clash song
" It's the end of the world are we know it and I feel fine"

Maybe Ferrari will have various f series that are "exclusive"
And then there will also be Those cars sharing bits with massers and Alta's will be "less exclusive" and you will be able to buy one without having to give your dealer a bj
And if this car is as rumored with a close on 600 hp Alfa derived ttv6 that weighs in
"Gt4 guise around 3klbs or less, then that can only be a good thing for the driving side of the equation imo.

I do t think it's any secret how to make good cars these days, and fast is just an engineering equation , the piece most seem to miss is a sports at that is lithe with ceedback and alive. If porche can do it, Ferrari can do it better. So far though they have played the limited production high end sports at game and this has arguably led to a more limited focus in terms of what performance means.

 

Meh. The difference between a Q5 and a Macan. Lots of difference engineered into the platform.

 

R.E.M. - 1987

 

So, you gave up in 1948.

 

I wouldn't assume the batteries or energy storage technologies of 2025 will be the same as the ones being made today.

I think fuel cells/hydrogen make a lot of sense, and could provide much improved performance cars at the same time they would reduce the poisons dumped into the environment. (There was a recent article in the Economist that cited a mind-blowing stat about how much oil Americans dispose of improperly. 20 million gallons? I think it may even have been higher than that.) Just replacing petroleum with hydrogen would address an endless list of problems with the world economy and save a lot of wars.

 

Of course. But my point is that the driving experience isn't that compelling to most drivers and there are already better alternatives now. When the fuel runs out, there will be synthetics to run those same systems. $36 a barrel today ; )

Yah I agree. The challenges with hydrogen are containment and distribution from my understanding. Emissions are....water - awesome.

That is gross on the oil, but doesn't surprise me. Just look at what people throw out in the street in a major city...disgusting.

 

Agreed

I still love porsches but no longer lust after any of them. The 911 turbo and such just arent special anymore theyre a dime a dozen. I often thought about swapping down to a 911 turbo so i can drive it eveyday and not care about it.

Then i look at my ferrari and think how stupid a thought that is.

 

Modena is only 12 miles from Maranello, and the Ferrari museum is across the street from the factory. There is an Enzo museum in Modena, Ducati and Lamborghini.

 

I recently drove a Ferrari FF. Great 4WD system - but nothing special to other powerful cars.
Ferraris of today are modern cars, produced by a modern industrial process, with good and modern engines and not very good build quality inside (every cheap AUDI is better here!)

I also drove a McLaren 650 and found not many differences to a Ferrari Italia/488. The days of the brutish and raw engines are over!

Why? Because the computers on which all those cars, engines etc. are designed are ....the same!

Welcome in the real world!

Ciao!
Walter