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Engine bay freshen-up questions from a new guy

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Doug D, May 15, 2020.

  1. Doug D

    Doug D Rookie

    May 6, 2020
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    Douglas Dwyer
    Hi, new guy here. Not new to working on cars but I've just begun dabbling a bit in Ferraris. My background over the decades is mostly Jag/Corvette/muscle car stuff.

    Current project is a 1974 365 GT4 2+2. It's a nice driver-quality car needing some TLC in a few areas. Besides light mechanicals and servicing I am doing an engine bay freshen-up.

    A couple questions in that regard....although as the weeks pass I'm sure I'll have more!

    1) The air intake ducts that are bonded to the inner fenderwells: In looking at pics I see some are black and others are silver. Is there a rhyme or reason to this? Presently the ducts on this particular car are black but it has become clear to me that I'm not the first person to have done some cosmetic rehab work on the engine bay.

    2) Air cleaner housings/boxes: At first glance I thought these had a wrinkle finish like the cam covers. However, while there is some texture to the finish, it really isn't "wrinkle" texture. More like a very fine pebble texture. What the correct finish for these?

    Although a true restoration is beyond the scope of this project I do want to get (at least) the easy stuff right!

    Thanks for any help.

    Doug D.
    Pacific Northwest USA
     
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  3. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    857
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    I've usually seen the 365 with black intakes, while the 400 are aluminium. Note that the firewall is painted the same colour as the intake. Note also that the 412 has no wrinkle paint on the cam covers.

    Indeed the wrinkle paint is far less thick on the air-filter-boxes, but so is the material underneath. I presume it would be hard to apply a 2mm coat of paint over a half millimetre sheet of metal. The coat of paint would probably crack easily.

    The proper way to apply this paint is normally one coat of fast drying/curing paint (acrylic?) and one coat of slow cure paint (petroleum based). As one paint cures faster than the other you get the wrinkles. If the base-coat is not too much damaged you can overspray it with epoxy.
     
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  4. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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    Feb 25, 2009
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    G'day Doug!

    The air thingy's,for mine,should be silver in the 365's,there has been discussion on here re that and I think most reckon the same.
    The air boxes should be similarish to the cam covers,someone else will tell you I'm sure.
    Some pics will aid the answers to your questions.....and pics of the rest of the thing as well!
     
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  5. Doug D

    Doug D Rookie

    May 6, 2020
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    Douglas Dwyer
    Gentlemen, thanks for the input and taking the time to reply

    Cheers
    DD
     
  6. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
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    Brian White
    Post some engine bay pics Doug.... :)
     
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  8. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula Junior
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    Graham
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  9. Doug D

    Doug D Rookie

    May 6, 2020
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    Douglas Dwyer
    WDA, thanks for the pics. The ducts on my car certainly have some sort of gloppy stuff applied. Who applied it, I don't know. I like the look you achieved.

    Cheers
    DD
     
  10. Doug D

    Doug D Rookie

    May 6, 2020
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    Douglas Dwyer
    Here's a pic I grabbed on the run, I'll add more later

    Though not shown in the photo it appears that the firewall may have originally been entirely silver, including the ducting under the cowl. Does that sound right?

    I'm seeing many traces of red paint in the engine bay under layers of black. I've also seen traces of red in tiny nooks and crannies in the body work. This brings me to believe the car was originally red. Did Ferrari paint the entire car body color and then blackout the engine bay areas?

    As I may have mentioned, "a person or persons, not me", had been in the engine bay before with some spray bombs. I have black and silver in odd places. That's all be corrected. The pedal box has been painted entirely silver; doesn't seem right to me.

    Job is progressing slowly but steadily. I dedicate 2-3 hours/day to it. Not much left to strip out of the engine bay. Starter is heading off for a freshen up on general principles with the alternator to follow. After prepping a nicely painting the engine bay and detailing the engine itself....to the extent possible in situ....I'll work on refurbishing everything I've removed. Then reassembly begins.

    Fun project!

    Thanks for all the input so far

    Cheers
    DD


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  11. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    857
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Pedal box is also silver on mine, and so was the entire firewall. This paint seemed original to me. I've recently painted the firewall black but kept the pedal box silver.

    Under the airbox paint, the coarse coating is the same one as what is used on the tanks and the inner door panels. I would keep some sort of insulator here, as the engine bay can be hot as hell and insulating this metallic part would avoid to feed the cockpit with insanely hot air.
     
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  13. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day Doug

    On my car (365 as well) the fender mounted air ducts are coated as Raemin described. I agree that these ducts should be Silver in color, as this will help to reflect engine bay heat. Painting them black will certainly accelerate heating of the cavity resulting in larger air temps flowing into the car's cabin.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  14. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
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    Oct 22, 2013
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    Ruben
    That makes sense Sam, but for what it’s worth, Ferrari seems to have gone back to black crackle texture on the 412.

    Cheers,

    Ruben
     
  15. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Ruben,

    Understood. Personally I think the black wrinkle finish looks much better and matches the engine bay components (valve covers, etc). As to why they changed this...perhaps the heating of the incoming cabin air was not an issue, or the 412 had improved their HVAC system, or Ferrari just went with aesthetics. Sadly, we simply do not know. What I do know is that insulating the fresh air intake will make it easier for the cabin HVAC to do its job. I am unsure how well the 365/400/412's HVAC system is, but given the number of other model era HVAC complaints (308's, Boxers, etc) I would suspect that any help you can provide to Ferrari's HVAC system would indeed be beneficial.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  16. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
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    Oct 22, 2013
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    Hey Sam, yeah, I agree that the aesthetics is better with the black. On the HVAC performance, my car has the dual AC, which I think all 412s may have (?) - it works fantastically well, even in 95 deg heat. Maybe Ferrari in their infinite wisdom decided that they wanted the engine bay to look its best in black crackle paint, so they decided to just make the dual AC standard! :D

    Cheers,

    Ruben
     
  17. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Ruben,

    Obviously Ferrari was listening to its customers and went with the Dual AC on the later model...and I am sure it helped a lot :). ... and I am sure you appreciate this chnage! That being said, one would be surprised at how somewhat minor details/changes can have such an affect on the HVAC of a space. As an example, I am in an old (1954) building and the building's AC was an add on much later... and whoever installed it simply ignored the laws of Thermodynamics. With that said, I have one office which was getting quite warm in the Summer. A full AC retrofit with an air handler would be the best solution, however, until this is done I simply made some air flow adjustments along with installing some blinds and the result was a reduction in space temperature by over 5 degrees... which makes the space comfortable and less taxing on the current AC system... a win-win as it were.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  18. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    857
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    The HVAC of the 412 definitively works much better. I presume the three additional ASTI fans do contribute to the efficiency of the 412 as the rest of the AC is using basically the same hardware. 400i gen1 only has one additional ASTI cooling fan, while the 365 had to make it do without ant additional fans. The 365 is by far the hottest...

    Air-duct paint: I will probably upgrade this somehow as the texture does not stick to the duct. From time to time I just have an annoying bit that comes off.
     
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  19. Doug D

    Doug D Rookie

    May 6, 2020
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    Douglas Dwyer

    Gentlemen,

    I haven't been a very good correspondent. Sorry. I am making slow-but-steady progress. I'll post some pics soon

    On this issue of fender ducts I ended up going with black. I sanded and scraped....and could find no evidence that they were ever silver. I may change my mind, though. There is so much black in the engine bay the silver might be a welcome bright spot.

    Anyhow, I have some questions but will start a new thread.

    Thanks
    Doug
     

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