engine cut out | FerrariChat

engine cut out

Discussion in '348/355' started by Kaivball, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    questions to all experts out there:
    My 92 348 cuts out at around 5-5.5k rpm under hard acceleration. It almost seems like either a rev limiter is kicking in or the engine is being starved for fuel.

    Any ideas what can cause this?

    Kai
     
  2. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Most problems are either spark or fuel. So what is the specific symptom? Does the car just die like the power was shut off, or does it cough, sputter and poop out? I'd bet it's a fuel filter issue since that is the majority of causes of high rpm cut off. Or it might be a dying fuel pump.

    Have you looked into the fuel system recently?

    On the spark side, all I can suggest is the possibility of a short or loose connection that severs current somehow at high demand.
     
  3. cmjames63

    cmjames63 Karting

    May 9, 2006
    80
    PNW
    Full Name:
    CMJ
    Check the battery cables. My '92 ts did exactly that, when one of the battery cables was loose.

    CMJ
     
  4. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,224
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    +1

    Possibly worn engine/gearbox mounts causing the motor/gearbox to move under load?

    Seen this on alot of other cars thats all ;)
     
  5. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,224
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    Maybe even be a notorious 'bad earth' issue that 348's can also be reknowned for. :):) Check earth points and would even pay to add another earth from battery to engine cradle. :)
     
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    Check the condition of the connections to the Mass Air Flow Sensor, O2 sensors, coil packs, crank sensors, and cam sensor. Make sure that they are clean and connected properly. Check to make sure that there are not broken wires.

    Then you will want to check the condition of your spark plug wires/plugs.

    Finally did you get any check engine lights? If you did you should pull the codes to see what triggered the light. Maybe even pull the codes anyway.
     
  7. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    ok,
    fuel filter changed, new spark plug wires, battery attached.

    Still cuts out at 5k'ish. It feels like a rev limiter kicking which I believe cuts fuel back, right?

    If it doesnt' go away I will take it to SVAG in Los Gatos to look at.

    Thanks, for the feedback.
     
  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
    22,617
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    The Bad Guy
    Check the condition of the connection for the MAFS, and the crank sensors.
     
  9. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
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    Vince V
    Fuel, fuel, fuel.
     
  10. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,784
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Bruce Bogart
    Possible failure of a fuel pressure regulator?
    Where are you? Recommend you subscribe. There's probably a brother near you. Sometimes it's easy to diagnose by swapping parts off another car til it goes away. This problem is likely a simple fuel supply problem, but very hard to diagnose without being there.
     
  11. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
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    Vince V
    I remind you of Occam's razor which is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

    Therefore, I would start with a fuel filter, move to fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump before looking for more complex causes. Not that they are any less valid suggestions, but start with "Oc".
     
  12. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    Thanks, I am in San Jose, CA.

    yeah, i guess I will subscribe now...
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
    22,617
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    The Bad Guy
    GUESS??!!

    Cummon man, join up. You don't know what your missin. The 348 Brotherhood watches out for each other. Since you own a 348 your already in the Brotherhood. But be for warned, this doggon sight Rob created IS VERY addicting.
     
  14. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
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    Mark Johnson
    I too am an SJ local. I used to work for Los Gatos Ferrari back in 1999. Shoot me an e-mail and lets check it out. Definately sounds like spark, or fuel. I just bought a 348 that needs a rebuild after a T-belt break if you want to see the nitty gritty.

    Mark
    [email protected]
     
  15. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    You bought TMobilguy's car, didn't you? Did he give you my head bolt tool with the car? I sent it to him to use and haven't gotten it back.....
     
  16. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2006
    6,081
    Tustin Ranch, Cali
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    Enrico Pollini
    How many miles were on it when the Belt let loose. Im currious what the cause of the belt breaking was.
     
  17. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    Hard accel. causes a couple of things to happen. 1) As the load increases spark has to overcome a larger resistance that is the result of higher cylinder pressures, increased fuel charge, hotter temps (2500F +), and a shorter amount of time for the secondary ign. coil satturation. 2) Fuel pressure must be par for the regulators to dump fuel when, and if they see the lack of vac. signal. 3) Chasis grounds must be in good shape to handle the increase in system current. 4) Critical sensors must be able to respond with higher accuracy. Does the car chug-a-lug like a rev limit or does it bog down? 5) Exhaust system must be free from pressure drops. Are any lights illuminted on the cluster? I love this stuff, and used to make a living at it before moving into the semiconductor industry. Did you replace the plug extenders they are suspect?
     
  18. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    Yeah I bought tmobileguys 348. I am awaiting delivery, so I dont have the head bolt tool, and don't expect to recieve it. I will ask him about it. As far as I understand it a tensioner bearring let go.
     
  19. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Now see, that just isn't right. You lend out a tool to a fellow brother in need and he doesn't give it back. Cummon TMobile send Plugs his tool back.
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,139
    socal
    It is electrical and hard to find. After you physically check everything twice if you give up just have FNA put an SD2 on it for 75 bucks and get the diagnosis. It will not be totally right but it will get you in the reight circuit branch. I bet you feel the problem at 5000rpm but it is coming in beofre that most likely and the SD will find it. Or you could plug a digitch generic tool in there or sometime just a sun smog machine will isolate problem areas.
     
  21. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    Good point! A quick scan generally points you in the right direction. I have built my own scan tools for other cars and look forward to tinkering with the 348 electronics!
     
  22. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    Catalytic converter
     
  23. kingsdare

    kingsdare Karting

    Oct 24, 2006
    132
    California
    Full Name:
    David King
    Do you know of a generic tool that will hook up with the early motronic system? I don't think it can be done with an OBDII reader.

    I have a Snap-On MT-2500 scanner and have been trying to find an adapter and cartridge but no luck so far.
     
  24. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia

    I am running X-ost with hyperflow cats, all brand new. It behaves like a rev limiter is kicking in.
    I did not replace the plug extenders... yet :)

    I took it to SVAG finally and have them check it out. They still owed me a full detail so I had to go there any way.

    Marc, do you go to the SR events? I will be there this Saturday.
    Thanks for all the feedback.

    Kai
     
  25. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    No I have not been going to any events. Who, what, where when?
     

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