Re: 246 Dino Any comments on the use of oil treatment additives, such as, STP Oil Treatment in lieu of synthetic oil? Bill
I occassionaly put a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel tank of my Daytona and I put a quart in with the oil every time I change it. Just too many mechanics with too many years experience who have said they know the stuff works and is worth the effort. No ideas why or how... but it works. Terry
Tspringer, I have to agree with others on not adding any additives to motor oil. It will upset the additive package already present, however it is very beneficial to add some sort of upper cyl. lube to the fuel. I happen to use Lucas lube with intake and injector cleaner. Gary
All the people I respect who know about such things say they don't work. Despite this I have tried some additives in the oil for my 208 and I didn't notice any difference.
208gt4, STP puts in a large load of polymers which significantly modifiies the viscosity of your oil, problem is a multi-vis oil already has polymers added. STP works for a while but then the polymers go away from heat and shear. Other additives such as Prolong contain chlorinated parafins which are extream pressure additives but cause gelling of the oil in street driven autos. I have actually witnessed this first hand. If you have an engine in relatively good condition avoid additives. These companies will take your money and make you think that you have done the right thing, the exact opposite is true Gary
I am glad to finally hear the reason for that (gelling). Back when STP was all the rage I used to see that and never really knew why. I even had one machine shop who boiled a block on a motor I was rebuilding make me promise to never come back. The goo fouled their tank so bad they had to change it.
Gary48, Motor silk is supposed to be Boron based additive that bonds to metal surfaces. I heard about it on the radio. I've since Googled it and am not yet impressed but, if someone on this board has used it or done some homework, I would be interested in their opinion. Tspringer, I also use MMO, its 30 weight oil with a bunch of stuff in it. It seems to help and has an almost mythical status among the old-timers. Regards, Art S.
http://www.motorbond.com/auto_engine.html The above will provide some information regarding "Motor Silk." Sounds great, I wouldn't use it in the "Dino" engine on a bet. My opinion: Ferrari castings have enough potential problems without circulating some unknown substance through them. Best wishes,
I never use oil additives. The modern oils are so well formulated that there really isn't anything else needed. Besides, who is to say that some oil additive may react negatively with those already present in the oil? Who knows what may pecipitate out? I do, however, agree on fuel additives. I use Marvel mystery oil as an upper cylinder lubricant in everything, including my airplane. It's fine, especially for engines that sit for long periods of time. It forms a tough film on everything exposed to fuel. My 2 cents. Bob Z.
I have to say that the formulation of silk is one additive that defies the others. I have used a similar if not the same formula. Its called Avblend and its FAA approved made by Oil Chem Research Corp. The claim is that it soaks into the metal and form a super slippery surface, just the same claim as silk. I have used it alot. Its available from Aircract Spruce 877-4-spruce. It looks to me that they want you to change your oil more frequently with this additive. I would have to say that this is the only additive type that should be considered as it is breakthrough technology originally created in Government labs and endorsed for use in aircraft. I have no idea what it can or cannot do to the rest of your existing additive package, but I will say that the stuff has alot more going for it than some glitzy infomercial bolstering wild unsubstanciated claims for their additive. Hope this inspires thought and discussion. Best regards Gary
FWIW I think we all stress out about motor oil a lot more than we need to. With few exceptions (246, Daytona cams) it has been many years since I have rebuilt motors for worn out lubricated parts, especially modern motors. It is always for wear in areas that no motor oil will change one way or the other. Motors these days including older designs rebuilt with modern parts are torn down and rebuilt most often for compression loss. Piston ring land wear and top ring wear are areas where that if the motor is in good condition, has no oil in that area, it's proper operation does not require it. In fact it is a negative, if oil is present the motor will be burning considerable amounts of it and is a sign that those parts are no longer working properly. Cylinder wear on most modern motors takes the form of simple taper from the high pressures of the top ring which is pressure activated, wearing against it. The oil control and the oil scraper rings (middle and top) if they are performing their jobs correctly see to it that by the time the upper portion of the piston and top ring go by that the cylinder wall above them is devoid of oil. Much the same can be said of the valves, another area of high wear and cause of motor tear down. The valve stem seals have gotten much more efficient which along with improved materials on the valves and guides means that those run for the most part dry as well. Again if there is oil present it will be burning it, a situation counter to all our efforts. We can thank most of that to 3 things. Modern materials make motors last longer and give us the ability to stress them more than ever before in the production of horsepower. Modern engine management systems that keep wear inducing combustion by-products down to a minimum. Modern lubricants which keep all the lubricated parts almost wear free for the life of the other components of the motor. Until the manufacturers start using higher quality materials for pistons, rings, cylinders, valves and guides the life of a motor is dictated by those parts, not our motor oils. The modern oils are a miracle product compared to not too long ago and I have said before at least as major brands go there are good ones and better ones, but there are no bad ones. Pick one, get something close to the correct weight and keep it full. Get a good nights sleep and don't stress out about it.
Rifledriver, well put, we do take these things to the extreme most of the time. I wish I could say I have completed my education on oils when bam! another revelation makes me take notice of another aspect I have yet to learn. I have been exposed to brilliant people with advanced knowlege on the subject and I find it terribly intriging and thought provoking still, because of its complexity and ever changing dynamics. Just when I thought I knew something, I learn about the vast differences in base stocks or additives or that all synthetic are vastly different. Some are formulated from base stocks such as Polalphaolefins, Diesters and Polyolesters all of which have different properties for different applications. Just about the time you have all that straightened out, here's a court case between two major oil producers where the government allows hydrocracked petrolium oil to be called synthetic with none of the same properties as "real" synthetics. So the unsuspecting are duped again and marketing and money making are allowed to amble on unfettered and unaccountable. It all makes me crazy to be duped only to find out later through education that what I thought was correct was a ruse. I guess just picking a oil and going with it is just not enough given all the choices and data. I know that its probably anal as hell but I hope that advances will allow the pursuit of the best to continue and so far that has been the case. For me at some point it may become boring for lack of new data, but I hope not. Thanks for indulging me in my ramblings and my hope is that it doesn't appear too mundane for too many. best regards Gary
Terry, I have used the MMO for awhile as well. I put it in the gas tank. I would be concerned about putting it in the oil, however, as it would ruin the viscosity design of your oil. john
I occassionaly put a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel tank of my Daytona and I put a quart in with the oil every time I change it. Just too many mechanics with too many years experience who have said they know the stuff works and is worth the effort. No ideas why or how... but it works. Terry I kinda hate bringing aircraft into the car thing, but MMO is the only oil additive that has EVER been approved by the FAA for use in aircraft engines. All the old airplane guys, mechanics, and engine builders swear by the stuff. One thing it may be able to do better is to provide better corrosion resistance during idle periods, and supposedly its good at keeping rings from sticking. But all those pilots swear they get longer TBO's with it in there than without. Outside of MMO I would agree with all the statements and use no other additive.
I use a little Marvel Mystery Oil myself. (It calms the nerves after a spirited drive...) Put too much in your gas tank, though, and it will start to smoke, or smoke more than it had before. It could also foul the plugs. I used it once to fog the cylinders in a car that was in storage for a while, and when I started it up, it blew some glorious clouds of smoke! An old timer told me to use 4 ounces to every ten gallons (US). I probably use a little less, but I don't measure it too accurately. I really miss the wonderful old cans that they used...
Most modern oils far exceed any reqyirements that Ferrari engineers had when these older engines were designed. They did not need additives then, and probably do not need them now. Change the oil often and enjoy it.
Additives will dilute the oil, it is better to spend your money on more frequent oil changes than on additives. I have used a few ounces of Marvels Mystery Oil to pre-lubricate cylinders after storage by removing the spark plugs and putting it in there.
I just bought a pneumatic hammer for solid rivets from Aircraft Tool Supply. ATS specifically recommends MMO for cleaning after each eight hours of use, to flush "accumulations of gum and dirt out of the exhaust." The instructions don't specify what regular pneumatic oil to use for lubrication. I guess that means that MMO has even more solvent/cleaning properties than I had realized. I still miss the old fashioned cans, though. The plastic bottles don't have as much "Mystery" to them.
Hi, Matt. Back a ways, MMO made an oil formulated for air tools and marked as such. I have seen air tool maintenance brochures recommending that product. If not available, they suggested ATF. Over the years I have met quite a few people who have used MMO as both an oil and fuel additive. I have NEVER heard a negative comment about the product. As I mentioned, I use it as a fuel additive in my Piper Cherokee. Now that's faith in a product! Bob Z.
