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Engine out assistance / advice

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Philwozza, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Worrall
    In need of some advice chaps

    My car is now officially OFF the road for the winter. Yeah early I know, but I cant wait to get into the engine to fit new belts, check valve clearances and an all round engine bay detail.

    I am going to lift the engine out of the top followed by the subframe out of the bottom. It has to be this way due to limited space in my garage and lifting equipment availability.

    I will use a 2 ton lifting hoist to lift the engine.
    Where and how do attach the webbing / chain hooks to the engine. I am thinking of running webbing under each bank of cylinders and up to the hoist hook. Any problems with this? Can I cause any damage?
    Once the engine is out I will use the hoist to lift the rear boywork high enough to enable me to drive the subframe out of the rear of the car.

    Do you have any good pointers e.g. make a route for the throttle cable before removing it :(

    Thanks for any help / advice.

    I hope to photo the whole event an publish on Fchat
     
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  3. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    Tough way to go out the top, imho. I know the later 512's did it that way.

    That TR motor and trans weighs a ton, or at least 1/2 a ton. Heavy bugger. It would be better to use an a-frame.

    The other benefits of taking it out the bottom is you can detail everything much better too.
     
  4. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
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    Phil Worrall
    I cant tke it out of the bottom in one move as I dont have the necessary lifting equipment. :(

    P
     
  5. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
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    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    Understood.

    If you search the site you will find several links to people who have done it various ways out the bottom without a lift.
     
  6. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,938
    Your safety and the safety of your car are worth the bucks to get a low cost scissor lift. Less than 2K in your garage. No installation to speak of and they work just fine for the TR.

    The engine out the top or jack stand routine is a disaster waiting to happen.... but yes, it 'can' be done.

    Rgds,
    Vince
     
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  8. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
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    Jeff
    If your already planning on removing the subframe out the bottom, you may as well leave the motor/trans bolted up and pull the whole thing out. If you leave the wheels and tires on, you can use a dolley of some sort under the front of the engine...and roll the whole works out the back (like a tricycle) at once. You will have to jack the car up off the subframe, and get the rear end high enough to clear everything, so it will roll freely out the back. You will need to remove the rear bumper and lower panel of course. Working SAFELY cannot be over emphasized here. When seperating everything...go very slowly, in small increments, checking and double-checking everything. The front wheels will have to be securely anchored so the car CANNOT roll at all, forwards or backwards.

    VINCENZO is right...there are risks involved doing it the "caveman" way, but if you don't take anything for granted, don't take any chances with ANYTHING....you should be okay.
     
  9. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
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    Phil Worrall
    #7 Philwozza, Sep 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Carguy, the problem I have is that I dont have the lifting capability to lift the whole car off the engine AND sub-frame at the same time.......I think!

    However, It may be possible to lift the car minus engine and rear subframe) with this 2 ton engine hoist.

    I was originally thinking that if I lift the engine out of the top with this device, it should then be reasonably easy to then use this device again IN the engine bay to lift the car off the subframe.

    I have a small "English" garage to work in therefore things are tight at best.

    Hmmmmm, if I can get to release all parts between engine subframe and chassis then I could use this hoist to lift the car off as you suggest.......................

    Any thoughts or ideas
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,236
    Central Florida
    Just a question or two.

    If you garage is that small, where are you going to work on the engine and subframe at, plus store the car.

    I know the UK garages are pretty small.

    Are you doing this for the experience, to save money, or both?

    That engine hoist you showed will work, however if you garage floor has ANY holes, dips, rough surface you will NOT be able to roll it. Also if you try to turn it too sharp it will tip over. I know this firsthand.

    If it's lack of funds we all understand why you want to do it yourself, however if the money is not that tight you are risking yourself and your car.

    At least if you rent the scissor jack you can return it once the engine/subframe is out.
     
  11. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,333
    Alabama (was Mich.)
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    Jeff
    Hello PHILWOZZA, you don't need any fancy lifting apparatus....but you do need 3 good floor jacks. Here's the simplified version of how to do this. Anchor the front wheels in such a way that the car cannot move forward or backward. Remove and/or disconnect all hoses and wires, making sure that you label each and every item as to it's location, etc. Remove the rear bumper and lower valance panel. Raise the rear of the car up, and secure it with 2 heavy duty jack stands. Then remove the shock tower nuts (only 3 need to be removed, the 4th one can stay...you'll see). Make a note of how the shifter shaft is adjusted at the coupler (count threads...etc), put the trans in 2nd gear, and then remove the shift shaft. Remove the rear wheel well panels. And though it's not necessary, I remove the exhaust system as a whole, undo the bolts at the headers, and undo the hangers, the whole thing will drop out, have a helper if needed. Now remove all of the forward subframe bolts/nuts except the outermost one on each side. Then remove the rear subframe bolts except the outermost one on each side. Now lower the car back down to the floor, and roll a floor jack up and under the front area of the motor/trans. and jack up until you just start to remove some of the weight. Now remove the remaining subframe bolts. Then carefully jack the car body up using 2 floor jacks positioned on each side of the car...the jacks should be at the point where the rear factory jack location is...use a block of wood or other device to prevent bending the sill plate. Jack the car up about an inch at a time, going from side to side. You will need to get the rear frame cross member up high enough for the top of the motor to roll under. You will also need to get the bottom of the rear quarter panels up high enough for the wheels & tires to clear.....or you may have to remove the wheels & tires and set the whole subframe down on a dolly....just depends on how high your floor jacks can safely go. Once everything is up....roll that puppy outa there. Oh...also...don't disconnect the AC Pump hoses...just remove the pump from the motor....and hang it up out of the way, that way you don't loose the freon charge. I typed this out as fast as I could as we are heading out - so I apologize for any confusion. There is still some risk in doing it this way, but I've done a TR engine out several ways and this was the easiest way for me, working by myself - not too bad of a job.
     
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  13. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
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    Jeff - remind him about securing a string or wire to the end of the throttle cable so fishing it back on installation is easier.

    CC
     
  14. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    #11 kerrywittig, Oct 2, 2009
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  15. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    Phil Worrall
    Will the whole lot come out from underneath when the car is raised as far as shown in the first photo or am I missing somthing?
     
  16. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,612
    Land of Slugs & Moss
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    Look at the back of your car, The rear bumper and everything between it and the rear of the engine comes out for a service.
    Measure from the floor to the top of the rear bumper, then measure from the floor to the top of the engine. Subtract....................................plus or minus a couple of inches for wiggle room.
     
  17. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
    2,045
    Winchester UK
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    Phil Worrall
    OK guys I have been convinced that out of the bottom is the way to go.


    I just have to convince my wife that I have more hours to spend in the garage than on her new kitchen and I know that will not go down well.
     
  18. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
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    Jeff
    The real hurdle to clear is getting the car high enough for the rear tires to clear the bottom of the rear quarter panels....as I recall this requires the car be higher than the height needed for the top of the motor to clear the rear cross frame. If you floor jacks cannot get the car high enough for the tires to clear....then you'll have to remove the rear wheels and tires, and lower the engine-trans-subframe cradle down onto a dolly of some sort. The pictures that Kerry Wittig posted do not show how high the rear end must go for the motor to clear....it is about 8 to 12 inches higher than that.

    The KEY thing is to work safely here, take your time, and things will be okay. I've been working on cars for over 30 years, and I DO NOT take chances...I work methodically and carefully. If you have ANY doubts....please get some experienced help. As Vincenzo mentioned earlier....it's not just you that is in peril....but your car also. So it is critical that you have experience and confidence in what you are doing.

    I've done several engine-outs on TRs both ways in my garage, car up and drop the engine out.....and the way we've talked about here...car jacked up off the engine. I found that jacking the car up off the engine was safer and easier for me, than when I raised the car up and then lowered the engine out on a special platform jack. But that was just me, working without any power tools, doing everything myself. I'm sure other people will have a different point of view.

    Kerry Wittig....thanks for the memories my friend....
     
  19. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    Caution, Caution.......CAUTION!!!

    Be very careful when jacking the rear up...to NOT get the frame to "twisted"!! In otherwords jack one side up a couple inches.....then move to the other side and jack that up a couple, back and forth, side to side.......Why? It has been noted by a few people that if the frame gets too "twisty"......there is a possibility that you may crack the rear window!! This is just a word of caution and could save a very expensive R&R of the rear glass by just taking your time and and exhibiting some patience.

    Kerry
     
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,938
    #17 vincenzo, Oct 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. sparky p-51

    sparky p-51 Formula 3

    Aug 8, 2004
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    steve
    scissor lifts cost about 1700.00 and seem to work well for those who have them.
     
  22. kerrywittig

    kerrywittig Formula 3
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    All hail the wisdom of the V man!! Talk about putting things in perspective......well said.
     
  23. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    that never does go down well :)
     

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