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Engine Rebuild

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ncipps, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. ncipps

    ncipps Karting

    Jan 24, 2005
    95
    Hello Everyone,

    Has anyone had a rebuild of a vintage V12 recently. I'm being quoted 70-100k for a complete rebuild with all accessories. Does this seem correct?
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,486
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    what kind of vintage V12?
    2 cam - 4 cam
    and what all to do? liners, pistons, valves and valve seats and guides, crankshaft and bearings, oil- and waterpump, distributors, carburators ( 3 or 6 double? ), flywheel, clutch
    and then all has to look like new?
    then those 70-100k may be not enough. US $ or euro?

    your profile says nothing about you, not even your name or where you are from.:( and you are a member here since 2005
    so please have a look here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/what-do-you-think-about-filling-out-the-profile-and-introducing.567692/
     
  3. ncipps

    ncipps Karting

    Jan 24, 2005
    95
    car is a 1972 365gtb4. A complete engine rebuild I would hope to include everything. Pistons, liners, pumps complete valve job, timing chains etc. A to Z stem to stem. Rebuild distributors, carbs (6) starter alternator and yes to make the engine and accessories appear as new. Located in Michigan and prices are in USD.
     
  4. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,438
    If you want it done right send it to Patrick Ottis in California
     
  5. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,086
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    That is pretty close to the ballpark for a complete rebuild. It all depend what is found when the motor is disassembled. You never know what you are going to find. It could need a new crankshaft, the cams may need to be repaired or replaced. Has it been rebuilt before? You can either recondition the original connecting rods or install Carillo rods. The water pipes may be badly corroded and need to be refabricated. All of these things add extra costs and time to the job.
    A proper rebuild includes dyno runs to break the engine in, check for proper power output and check for leaks before the engine is installed in the car.
     
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  6. w.Hudkins

    w.Hudkins Karting

    May 16, 2006
    157
    Indiana
    Full Name:
    William Todd Hudkins
    #6 w.Hudkins, Jan 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
    Doing one now, don’t mess around call Larry at Motorkraft noblesville indiana, a lot of your shops from east coast to west coast send their motors there.

    317 846 5203
     
  7. ncipps

    ncipps Karting

    Jan 24, 2005
    95
    I was just kind of surprised at the cost. I've had other engines redone but this seems crazy expensive. I've called two places. Both gave me the range of 70-100,000 USD to have that done. This is ball park as as someone mentioned who knows what you will find.
     
  8. 365gtfr

    365gtfr Karting

    Dec 8, 2016
    58
    France
    Hello,

    I've just fully rebuild my 365 GT 2+2 engine: carbs, accessories, pistons, clutch, valves, guides, evertthing. The bill was around 50k€.
    In this picture you can see the motor at the end of the process. I have a lot of pictures of the full process if you're interested.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,048
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    Who carried out the work?
     
  10. Foncool

    Foncool Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2011
    299
    Who ever you choose to do the work, you’re going to be writing a fairly substantial check. Given that it is a Daytona, you should probably consider having the car run through a Classiche certified shop.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    2,004
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    +1

    Here's a (paraphrased) reference I heard couple of years ago and based on my experiences, I found it fairly accurate, yet simple way to offer estimates to thoroughly rebuild an older/vintage (i.e. 40+ year old) Ferrari engines and have quoted it since on several occasions:

    +/- $4K per hole, assuming no apparent or surprise damage on any major base components (i.e. block, crank, heads, etc), not including Dyno runs (for break-in, leak checks & testing), R & R or other engine/engine bay related items "while-you're-there".

    Hearing quotes for much less usually makes one wonder what are they skipping, i.e. not doing.

    P.S. Unless recently done, a proper restoration, including "straightening" of all 6 Daytona carbs can easily cost +/- $10K per set.

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  12. 365gtfr

    365gtfr Karting

    Dec 8, 2016
    58
    France
    it's "Workshop ALS" a a well-known workshop for ferrari in the south of france (Toulouse)
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,048
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    From your post, I thought you may have rebuilt it yourself. Thank you.
     
  14. w.Hudkins

    w.Hudkins Karting

    May 16, 2006
    157
    Indiana
    Full Name:
    William Todd Hudkins
    Give Larry Hajduk a call, he has been rebuilding ferrari engines for years with his father John Hajduk, who passed away. Great people, fair prices, professional. Ferrari motors sent to them for rebuild from all over the world. Also, located in Indiana so you could visit the shop during rebuild.
     
  15. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2003
    533
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Make sure you get a written guarantee. One year minimum.
    My C/4 motor rebuild took 3 years and 3 attempts by a "well respected" mechanic in southern California. He finally outsourced it to get it right. Absolutely ruined the experience of owning the car, which I had for 15 years. The shop has since closed but the mechanic is still quite active.
    Oddly enough, I moved to northern Arizona in 2014 and took my 360 Modena in for servicing to an indy shop in Phoenix. There on the engine rack was a 330 GTC motor, rebuilt by the same guy that messed up my C/4 motor, with a spun rod bearing.
    BTW total cost for the motor rebuild, which was everything, on the 3rd try was around $50K. This was 5 years ago.
     
  16. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,438
    #16 Vintage V12, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    What a waste of money that would be.
     
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  17. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2004
    812
    with Enzo 8995
    if one of the builders, in Michigan, was Terry Myr, you'll be fine. Ferrari mechanic for 40+ years and stands by his work. email me if i you need further info. steve meltzer
     
  18. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    879

    I have done in the last 15 years, among others,,, 4 full Ferrari engines 3 V12 and one 4 cyl ( by far most tricky!and we had to redo the top part another time this is a faulty design of MD engines) and what you quote with checking and overall of every ancillary is correct ballpark. One of them needed a new crankshaft and in a 1954 car this was not simple!!
    For reference I had 2 twin plugs comp Alfa Romeo engine done By some of the best people and definitively the best in Italy and we are above 60k Euros all included with above 170hp at the bench.
    I had another V12 rebuilt by someone just before I bought ( back actually) the car , a 275, and blew up the engine at le Castellet at 7750rpm..
    2 of the 3 V12 I rebuilt were supposed to be perfect when I bought the cars, prepared by well known shops, some of them even FC,,,
    More recently the V12 comp I am using including at Le Mans classic was supposed to be perfect but we had to change all the valves gaskets,,48 of them...at least we got superb pictures for the Haynes book on Ferrari Engines!!
    So finally the best engine is the Daytona competition 482hp at the bench rebuilt by Roelofs I my view the best competition engine builder in Europe with my own mechanic ( who is more careful and therefore always chose longevity be absolute performance) but Roelofs engine has been incredibly reliable.
    Conclusion : price as hefty as it is is long forgotten so long you have a good quality build and good power. You don’t need 480 hp in a normal Daytona but definitely chose, in you case in the US, the best shop who has been around for decades, have done tenth of them, where you can talk to other customers , and have some form of guarantee.
    Whether you pay 60k or 90k does not matter so long they actually do the job they charge you for ( yes I have seen mechanics telling you they changed this and that and when you see the parts you know they did not open or dismantle them) and they know how to do it.
    I probably did another 15 engines in addition to Ferrari engines and always with a mix of OK and also bad surprises ( like people not knowing you should have liners protruding on Aston Martin engine to protect the head gaskets; if you don’t do that you can do it again!).
    Again asking around is the best way and I would also ask racers because if the engine can survive racing it should logically survive well a more sedate use.
     
  19. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    6,292
    I thought that Terry has been off the radar for awhile, is that incorrect?
     
  20. GBTR6

    GBTR6 Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2011
    258
    Titletown, USA
    Full Name:
    Perry Rondou
    Motion Products in Neenah, Wi is a very well respected shop. Have done many Pebble Beach cars, and rare ones world wide.

    Perry
     
  21. sam231

    sam231 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 5, 2004
    521
    RI
    Unfortunately I do not have any pictures. My GTC/4 engine came back last spring after a year-long total rebuild-it runs great! I have owned the car for 12 years averaging about 6K miles a year and had just past 100K miles when a failed water pump led to the discovery the engine was in "badly worn" condition. The block had issues amongst other things a bent rod and dropped valve - don't ask. The cost was right around $50K, worth every penny in my opinion as it is now good for at least another 100K. The rebuild was orchestrated by John Tirrell at IFS in Massachusetts and the block was refurbished by a racing shop with which he has had good results.
     

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