Engine Rebuild

what kind of vintage V12?
2 cam - 4 cam
and what all to do? liners, pistons, valves and valve seats and guides, crankshaft and bearings, oil- and waterpump, distributors, carburators ( 3 or 6 double? ), flywheel, clutch
and then all has to look like new?
then those 70-100k may be not enough. US $ or euro?

your profile says nothing about you, not even your name or where you are from. and you are a member here since 2005
so please have a look here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/what-do-you-think-about-filling-out-the-profile-and-introducing.567692/

 

If you want it done right send it to Patrick Ottis in California

 

That is pretty close to the ballpark for a complete rebuild. It all depend what is found when the motor is disassembled. You never know what you are going to find. It could need a new crankshaft, the cams may need to be repaired or replaced. Has it been rebuilt before? You can either recondition the original connecting rods or install Carillo rods. The water pipes may be badly corroded and need to be refabricated. All of these things add extra costs and time to the job.
A proper rebuild includes dyno runs to break the engine in, check for proper power output and check for leaks before the engine is installed in the car.

 

Doing one now, don’t mess around call Larry at Motorkraft noblesville indiana, a lot of your shops from east coast to west coast send their motors there.

317 846 5203

 

Hello,

I've just fully rebuild my 365 GT 2+2 engine: carbs, accessories, pistons, clutch, valves, guides, evertthing. The bill was around 50k€.
In this picture you can see the motor at the end of the process. I have a lot of pictures of the full process if you're interested.
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Who carried out the work?

 

Who ever you choose to do the work, you’re going to be writing a fairly substantial check. Given that it is a Daytona, you should probably consider having the car run through a Classiche certified shop.

 

+1

Here's a (paraphrased) reference I heard couple of years ago and based on my experiences, I found it fairly accurate, yet simple way to offer estimates to thoroughly rebuild an older/vintage (i.e. 40+ year old) Ferrari engines and have quoted it since on several occasions:

+/- $4K per hole, assuming no apparent or surprise damage on any major base components (i.e. block, crank, heads, etc), not including Dyno runs (for break-in, leak checks & testing), R & R or other engine/engine bay related items "while-you're-there".

Hearing quotes for much less usually makes one wonder what are they skipping, i.e. not doing.

P.S. Unless recently done, a proper restoration, including "straightening" of all 6 Daytona carbs can easily cost +/- $10K per set.

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it's "Workshop ALS" a a well-known workshop for ferrari in the south of france (Toulouse)

 

From your post, I thought you may have rebuilt it yourself. Thank you.

 

Give Larry Hajduk a call, he has been rebuilding ferrari engines for years with his father John Hajduk, who passed away. Great people, fair prices, professional. Ferrari motors sent to them for rebuild from all over the world. Also, located in Indiana so you could visit the shop during rebuild.

 

Make sure you get a written guarantee. One year minimum.
My C/4 motor rebuild took 3 years and 3 attempts by a "well respected" mechanic in southern California. He finally outsourced it to get it right. Absolutely ruined the experience of owning the car, which I had for 15 years. The shop has since closed but the mechanic is still quite active.
Oddly enough, I moved to northern Arizona in 2014 and took my 360 Modena in for servicing to an indy shop in Phoenix. There on the engine rack was a 330 GTC motor, rebuilt by the same guy that messed up my C/4 motor, with a spun rod bearing.
BTW total cost for the motor rebuild, which was everything, on the 3rd try was around $50K. This was 5 years ago.

 

What a waste of money that would be.

 

if one of the builders, in Michigan, was Terry Myr, you'll be fine. Ferrari mechanic for 40+ years and stands by his work. email me if i you need further info. steve meltzer

 

I have done in the last 15 years, among others,,, 4 full Ferrari engines 3 V12 and one 4 cyl ( by far most tricky!and we had to redo the top part another time this is a faulty design of MD engines) and what you quote with checking and overall of every ancillary is correct ballpark. One of them needed a new crankshaft and in a 1954 car this was not simple!!
For reference I had 2 twin plugs comp Alfa Romeo engine done By some of the best people and definitively the best in Italy and we are above 60k Euros all included with above 170hp at the bench.
I had another V12 rebuilt by someone just before I bought ( back actually) the car , a 275, and blew up the engine at le Castellet at 7750rpm..
2 of the 3 V12 I rebuilt were supposed to be perfect when I bought the cars, prepared by well known shops, some of them even FC,,,
More recently the V12 comp I am using including at Le Mans classic was supposed to be perfect but we had to change all the valves gaskets,,48 of them...at least we got superb pictures for the Haynes book on Ferrari Engines!!
So finally the best engine is the Daytona competition 482hp at the bench rebuilt by Roelofs I my view the best competition engine builder in Europe with my own mechanic ( who is more careful and therefore always chose longevity be absolute performance) but Roelofs engine has been incredibly reliable.
Conclusion : price as hefty as it is is long forgotten so long you have a good quality build and good power. You don’t need 480 hp in a normal Daytona but definitely chose, in you case in the US, the best shop who has been around for decades, have done tenth of them, where you can talk to other customers , and have some form of guarantee.
Whether you pay 60k or 90k does not matter so long they actually do the job they charge you for ( yes I have seen mechanics telling you they changed this and that and when you see the parts you know they did not open or dismantle them) and they know how to do it.
I probably did another 15 engines in addition to Ferrari engines and always with a mix of OK and also bad surprises ( like people not knowing you should have liners protruding on Aston Martin engine to protect the head gaskets; if you don’t do that you can do it again!).
Again asking around is the best way and I would also ask racers because if the engine can survive racing it should logically survive well a more sedate use.

 

I thought that Terry has been off the radar for awhile, is that incorrect?

 

Motion Products in Neenah, Wi is a very well respected shop. Have done many Pebble Beach cars, and rare ones world wide.

Perry

 

Unfortunately I do not have any pictures. My GTC/4 engine came back last spring after a year-long total rebuild-it runs great! I have owned the car for 12 years averaging about 6K miles a year and had just past 100K miles when a failed water pump led to the discovery the engine was in "badly worn" condition. The block had issues amongst other things a bent rod and dropped valve - don't ask. The cost was right around $50K, worth every penny in my opinion as it is now good for at least another 100K. The rebuild was orchestrated by John Tirrell at IFS in Massachusetts and the block was refurbished by a racing shop with which he has had good results.

 

Reviving an old thread about V12 engine rebuild costs. I've heard current rates are approximately $4k-$5k per cylinder if there's nothing wrong with the engine. It's unclear to me what the typical engine rebuild includes. When one discusses ballpark estimates for a Ferrari engine rebuild, are the following steps implied?

• Engine removal from the car
  
• Disassembly
• Repair/replace worn parts
• Machine shop work
• Reassembly
• Break-in, inspection and tuning on dynamometer
• Reinstall into the car

I understand how expensive the parts and labor are for these specialized engines, but the ballpark estimates seem really high unless there's a 'white glove' drive-in, drive-out element that most owners are accustomed to. Is this the case?

I ask in anticipation of unearthing a long-neglected V12 Ferrari in need of restoration. And I'm pretty sure I'm the only person on this forum looking for a project like this, right?

 

I have been at this for many years and the man I apprenticed under always told me that a proper rebuild takes 120 hours excluding broken components.
No big secrets just an acute attention to details. Round holes should be perfectly round, flat surfaces perfectly flat, and square corners square. We do the crankshaft align bore by hand using special tools which have not been available for years and hand scrape the bearing journals. Very time consuming.
Please let me know if you have any specific questions, as a long time consultant I am happy to answer as best I can

 

Same as me and same cost at TONI AUTO of Maranello Italy + 7K on gearbox

 

that’s where mine is now.....