You can and have always been able to buy the bosch multi-pin connectors so you can plug into the factory loom for an easy swap if you want to put the OEM ECU's back in it... This is what I'll be doing.
So the car went in this Monday and already a lot of work has been done. The engine was dropped and inspected. Generally, it looks very good and healthy. Some issues, mostly age related: - Rubber hose had cracked, slightly leaking oil - Spark plugs are ancient - Fuel injectors are quite dirty - Water pump needs replacing - Air conditioning O ring got mangled, likely during last major (therefore the fluid had leaked away and the reason why the system wasn't working anymore) - Drive shaft bolt not properly tightened - One of the cats is completely empty (I knew this already, because chunks of the ceramic material had come out through the exhaust, though surprised to see one of the cats was intact) Stuff replaced: - Gaskets, rings, hoses - Cambelts - Water pump - Spark plugs We're already looking ahead toward replacing the ECU and fitting new fuel injectors. As for the ECU: it will be a Haltech 2500 series, with double wide band controller and CAN bus. It will use double Bosch LSU 4.9. The injectors have been cleaned and analysed for their flow and spray pattern. Conclusion is this can be much improved. The plan now is to fit 370cc Bosch injectors with 12 nozzles. I already had some new cats, they will also be fitted. Then we're also making plans for the intake. As mentioned, it will likely be the F119H plenum, paired with custom CNC'ed throttle bodies and double airboxes (like the F355). However, these plans can change, depending on cost and gains. For the double airboxes it's also necessary to fabricate a custom heat shield (for the exhaust, otherwise it won't fit). Perhaps this will prove too much 'surgery' so there are more options on the table, like fitting a larger single airbox. The current target in terms of power is 100hp/litre, so 340hp. Some pictures: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was curious about Fabspeed Headers too, but haven't acted on that curiousity. They claim 24whp gain, and their dyno shows that gain at 4700rpm. That's actually a nice place in the rev range for additional HP The peak gain on their dyno is only 13whp. I suppose you could call the 24hp claim a bit of spin, but it's still there. DarkAngel's dyno post shows a 9.2whp gain at the peak, and bigger gains in the 4000-5000 RPM band. I think there's still something there. But for 1/3 the cost, there are better gains with the test pipes. Depending on emissions enforcement of course
I wouldn’t trade 27 hp for the way the FS headers sound. They ruin the car from the clips I’ve heard.
I guess I was a bit late to the party on the exhaust part of this thread. What i'm seeing is you can only open up the 348 exhaust so much before you need to turn your attention to the intake side of the equation. Meaning the most you could do to the exhaust is Cat Bypass alone, or aftermarket headers + sport cats. But you couldn't do headers + cat bypass. Unless you solve the intake/fueling/ECU part of the equation. Looking forward to Kasimir's progress.
Engine went back in the car again, everything looked and sounded good, which meant it was ready for a baseline run on the dyno. Yesterday there was time on the dyno. This is the result: Image Unavailable, Please Login So 291hp, which in itself doesn't say too much, because there are differences between dynos, calculated drivetrain efficiency, temperature, etc. But the bottom line is that the engine looks healthy and performs well. The torque curve is nice and flat, AFR also. The interesting thing of course is how much we can improve this result. Since my last post, there have been a few changes to the plans. The current plan is now as follows: Fit new ECU Fit 370cc injectors Fit 60mm throttle bodies (made by Jenvey in cast iron) Fit new pipes and double F355 airboxes (and customize heatshield to accommodate them) From the previous plans, we dropped the idea to use the F119H plenum. It was practically impossible to source this part at a reasonable price, also the smaller parts attached to it were a concern (a chance of running into an incompatible part made from unobtainium). I was a bit skeptical about the conversion to double airboxes, but when we can do it really neatly, with custom made, OEM looking pipes and throttle bodies, it convinced me that it would actually be pretty cool. As for the throttle bodies, we were planning to have them CNC'ed but the base design they use could not be changed to fit the 348 plenum. So 'plan B' is the cast iron throttle bodies, which I believe are a bit bulkier, but the cast iron look goes really well with the plenum. All these parts of the plan are currently being worked on and will take some weeks. In the meantime, there will be some bucket seats arriving. I already had plans for this, but after testing it out and looking at the options, I decided we should get a set of Recaro Pole Position FIA seats. They will be reupholstered in the same light brown leather as the rest of the interior. The Recaros are a really nice seat and after all these years still have this nineties design. And, perhaps most importantly: they save 40kg of weight, which will help in getting some more performance
By the looks of the AFR graph, you only need bigger fuel injectors if you need more fuel--which the graph indicates you do not.
If I understand correctly, the new injectors have multiple benefits. They measured the current injectors and found that the spray image was more like a drip than an evenly distributed cloud. So the efficiency and control of the injectors is also part of the decision to replace them.
If they spray drops instead of a mist, they are still dirty. At 66K miles and 5K track miles, my injectors needed 3 trips through the ultrasonic cleaning process to achieve a good spray pattern.
That's what we decided with my car, these 348's are actually tuned really well from the factory, fuel mixture is bang on ideal, if not a tad rich... I think the OP is just comparing a modern single spray injector to multispray injector, they do have better atomisation characteristics, but we found the OEM setup is perfectly adequate and yields a good result. The engine's power and torque also drastically flattens out after 7200, so we think that there isn't anything to be gained, its done, no amount of fuel is going to change that. After my baseline I have decided to just leave my car, I was going to go down this road of fitting a new ECU injectors and so forth, but my engine tuner thinks its a waste of time. He thinks there would be minimal gains. It would be different if the power was still climbing at the redline, but it is not, and all the dyno sheets I have seen of 348's prove it. What the engine needs before you even start talking about how much the heads flow, intake, exhausts and other usual topics of discussion, is 1, More compression, 2, improved cams. This would be a great starting point. Then you could look at porting and so forth... Getting more then a few extra horsepower from the F119 is going to cost a fortune.... Thats why I'm leaving mine, its totally fast enough, huge fun to drive......I'm a happy 348 owner, like I said, Ferrari tuned these cars extremely well. Summary, putting my car on the dyno was the best thing I ever did, we learned a lot and also learned Ferrari actually get the best from their engines....
Yes, indeed. I believe the new ones have 12 nozzles vs. a single one. I described it as 'like a drip' because it's not literally just dripping, it's that the spray pattern is more coarse, producing larger, visible drops vs. the mist or haze you see on the new ones. When did you do a baseline? Can you share the dyno sheet? Sounds like a whole new insight? In any case, speaking for myself: I was getting tired of reading all the opinions on what would work and what wouldn't and what one 'might do'. That's why I decided to get practical and seek out experts who have actual knowledge and the proper equipment. Worst case is we'll see no gains from the modifications, but then at least I've tried and found out for myself. And the option of rebuilding the engine is always still there, only it's much more expensive and only interesting when other options are exhausted.
I did a baseline a couple of weeks ago, I have the dyno sheet at home, I can post that when I get home, I am away at the moment. I think you are doing the right thing, modern injectors and ECU is a sensible upgrade regardless. Technology in this area is so far advanced compared to the tech the cars came out with. My tuner guy thinks I could improve idling, cold and hot start, most likely get better fuel economy, and probably improve the mid range torque/power curve, generally just tidy things up a bit, which could make it a bit more perky. But definitely feels Ferrari get as much as its got to give with the current cam/compression/flow/in-out flow setup... I think it will be really interesting to see if there is something worthwhile to get from this exercise. I may still replace the ECU and injectors at some point, but I am not as motivated to do it right now, it can be a future thing, nice to get rid of the old ageing electronics...
Yeah possibly, factory ignition maps are pretty conservative to allow for fuel inconsistencies and so forth, so there could be a bit more in it there.
Many compliments for how are you managing this initiative. I'm super curious about the evolution. Many thanks for sharing.
Quite some weeks have passed now, but in this time, much work has been done. The current approach: Throttle bodies: we would first get CNC'd throttle bodies, but they wouldn't be able to fit so this plan changed to the cast Jenvey throttle bodies. However, even though they promised it would work, at the last moment they found out it would in fact not. There was trouble hooking up the operating rods and the clearance they require. So we went with plan C, and that is to enlarge the current throttle bodies. They are now ported to 57mm. Airboxes: the plan was to go with F355 airboxes, because the engine bay is the same and also the tubing orientation/layout. But 512TR airboxes were also an option. Because we thought it'd be much cooler to have the triangular 512TR airboxes vs. the 'boring' square F355 ones, we went for those instead. ECU: the work on the ECU has been difficult. The Ferrari wiring diagrams do not seem to be completely correct, so it's a process of trial & error to find out what works. But we're getting there. These are the enlarged throttle bodies. You can clearly see the difference in diameter: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login And a dyno run was performed to see what difference this would make (so only enlarging the throttle bodies, no additional changes): Image Unavailable, Please Login Right across the rev range you can see an uplift. The biggest difference is at about 5600rpm, where there's about 6hp and 8nm of torque more available. According to the tuner, much more can be done once the ECU is up and running, and new airboxes are fitted (plus removal of the MAFs). It is in any case encouraging to see the engine responding well to this upgrade, with improvement at every rpm. The current estimate is that work on the ECU will be done next week. Then the ECU can be programmed and the airboxes etc. fitted for the actual tuning to commence. I will share the results when I have them! In the meantime, here are a few more pictures, of the flow matched fuel injectors: Image Unavailable, Please Login ...and the very cool 512TR airboxes: Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is very interesting information. I learned the fuel system is not actually maxed out on the 348 as you can see here on your 348, improving air flow gets some gains, although it doesn't make any difference to the top end, which suggests to me perhaps the cams could then be a bit limiting. But I think you're on the right track here. Once you get the ECU and injectors on there and can improve the ignition map you might get some more. Its definitely going to feel better to drive for sure...
Has anybody tried the moates ostrich setup with the motronic 2.7 ecu? Allows on the fly tuning and multiple maps without needing a separate aftermarket ecu by plugging into the motronic and emulating the chip itself.
