Engines - 206 vs. 246

One clue to the horsepower question are the engine details for a 246 and a 2400 Spider: carbs, pistons, valves, cams are all the same, both air cleaners seem to be about the same in restriction, but the Fiat Dino Spider exhaust has more stuff (mufflers and resonators in line (3 per bank) than does the 246.

 

Back in the mid 1980s, a friend with a rcently purchased 206 had cooling problems. Later discovered that he had 246 heads on the block. The water passageways didn't line up.

KevFla

 

Lancia Stratos blocks have also the FIAT name as part of their casting.
However the Stratos engines have many differences to all previous models starting from the simplest, i.e. engine numbers, which include a Lancia logo engraved on the block and follow a different numbering going to the structural/functional:
- Different carburetors (40 IDF)
- Different inlet manifold
- Different air filter setup including small trumpets (2cm high)
- Different fuel pumps
- Different cams
- Different exhaust manifolds
among other minor stuff.

I do not think that any factory mounted road-going Dino engine ever made the advertised HP be it FIAT, Ferrari or Lancia. My best guess is 165 HP max.

 

The exterior geometry of the heads is very close, the mating surfaces are significantly different as the 2.4 liter cylinder bore was increased to 92mm from the 2.0 liter's 86mm the cooling passages would very poorly align.

 

I think the basic thing to keep in mind when talking 206-246 is that the fine machinery and innovation found in the 206 just went through FIAT's process industrialization.
All the differences between the two cars you'll note are targeting lower production and service costs.
Away went the aluminum body panels, the central-locking wheels, the exotic bearings, the non-standard part sizes as found in the 206.
All the fancy stuff found in the 206 was revised and replaced by standard items and lower cost parts.
You can witness the same process through the L, M and E versions of the 246.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Stratos I am a huge fan of the 206, outside the car it is as beautiful as the 500 Mondial, all alloy, perfect size, perfect balance, in the most sincere form of flattery I nearly painted my 2.4 block to match the heads, but at the last minute changed my mind, it seemed a bit presumptious .

 

Reversing the flattery: I'm installing an alloy block 2.4 in my 206GT, (keeping the original engine as a spare of course). The block is bored out to take bigger liners, 246 crank fitted and 246 heads. I think the person who had a problem with the 246 heads on the 206 block must have had the 206 gaskets which don't allow proper coolant flow. The guy who's built my engine has done several succesfully before although not with the 246 crank. There are a few extra small mods to do to get it all to work properly.

 

Why would you want to do that?
It's a pity modifying/destroying one of the scarce 206 blocks. The alloy block does not have sufficient rigidity to handle the extra power and you have further weakened it by boring.
The Dino engine (as the 308/328 for that matter) have the particularity of hosting the integral gearbox and the torsional stresses are critical.
I know of 246 blocks that have been safely bored to 2.7lt. Beyond that figure the wall thickness becomes a serious issue.
Some Stratos rallycross cars allegedly had 3lt 246 blocks but I have not witnessed any in person.

 

Why? Extra power and torque whilst keeping the lighter weight.
I wouldn't be doing it if I believed the block wouldn't handle it. I've heard no reports of block problems form the numerous Superformance conversions, and my engine builder has had no problems either.
The 206 blocks can handle the extra power - at the most 20% in this case. The Formula 2 blocks are the same casting, unstrengthened, and handle 300+bhp at 10500+rpm, admittedly not on the integral gearbox casting.

 

I thought I told you why.
As the F2 blocks, these were Ferrari castings, completely different, there are still 2 at Mas-du-Clos and you can clearly see how different they are.

 

This is the bit I can never understand with you guys who think you are classic car enthusiasts. Why ruin the car by wanting to go faster? ... that just makes it "more modern". And who cares anyway, you are not going to win the F1 WDC with it, just rev the cr@p out of the thing you have and enjoy yourself.

The whole idea of classic motoring is to enjoy a past gone by, not just to enjoy the looks of the old cars and shoe horn faster/moderner components.

If you want to go faster, buy a modern car. Or build a dedicated race car (like a Spyker) and get off engineering wise with that ...
Pete

 

I think most sports car guys have a little hot rodder in us. Short of dropping a big block chevy motor in my Dino I see no problem with uprating the engine for more power. My coupe puts out 252 hp and looks totally stock. The Dino's look so cool and more power seems to embellish the essence of the car. When I drive my '52 Dodge stake bed truck it is a totally different scenario. I like the slower relaxed pace that fits that vehicle. With the Dodge going slow seems perfectly OK.

 

Right on! The Dino can use more power, with modern tires a lot more power. The suspension is timeless. At the top of what is possible wthout wings and tunnels.
What did you do to get the 252 hp? Give us a few pics and a rundown.

John

 

I've got 4 F2 blocks in my workshop and assure you they are standard 206 castings. I'll post photos shortly

 

246 TASMAN is spot on remember these blocks for our cars were secondary to Enzo's primary interest in winning a race with them, to do that he needed 500+ in something, anything, and they all had to be close enough to the race version to stand scrutiny. M