Enough with the Flappy-Paddles only

Haven't read all of the pages preceding, but...

Why can't a car have both? Not suggesting the technology is setup to do it today, but if demand were there I think it could be figured out.
I for one would love to have a true manual, but my wife really loves the DCT in our M3... I want both options.

 

Neither are carbon fibre, active aerodynamics, carbon ceramic brakes, START buttons, 500+ hp engines or the silly rain light on the back of the F12. Paddle shift manuals are one of the few really street-usable features Ferrari has added in the last 20 years.

 

The DCT manual is both. Set to manual mode if you want total control. Set to auto if you're stuck in traffic or the wife doesn't want to bother shifting.

 

Well that and cup holders!

 

... make that $3,600 carbon fibre cup holders!

 

Both in the sense that you have the paddles to shift. I want a third pedal and a stick shift.

 

For now porsche, bmw, are your only good choices, along with current gen r8 v8. I think v10 is stronic only. I don't. Maybe the corvette if you are willing to sacrifice some refinement.

 

Exactly. Like Alonso uses.

 

Then let us again return to the initial question...

As a "flappy paddle enthusiast" my answer is: no, I'm not with the thread starter.

Why: I feel myself with a Ferrari more connected via the parameters steering wheel (precise steering, clear feedback), throttle (engine power and torque, response characteristics), brake (constant strong braking power, sensitive response) and the "butt" (chassis layout/setup, behavior of the rear axle etc.) than via the gear box, for me the change of the gears is a necessary evil.

Ten years ago an automatic transmission with torque converter technology wasn't acceptable for me in a Ferrari, a manual transmission was an absolute must. But this has changed with the new double clutch gearbox technology (including the automated gearbox F1 SF from the Scuderia). They switch extremely fast without an interruption of traction and without a loss of torque - and they have two modes of operations: automatic and manual! What do you want more?

My personal conclusion: the new Ferrari gearboxes with the "flappy paddle user interface" allows me a better focus on the for me important parameters, I feel myself more connected to the car than with an older gearbox technology.

Of course, the older Ferraris, till the "generation 575M and 456M GT", are cool and smart to drive with the manual gearboxes, a perfect combination. But the new generation of Ferrari's is so high sophisticated developed and extremely sharp to drive, I really don't miss the old gear technology.

 

Agree. It will never happen. It might be Alfa or Maserati because they need the boost.

Ferrari has no need to add a lower cost sports car to their current line up to increase volume. McLaren however does.

It's like saying Rolls Royce needs a car to go up against Cadillac. Never happen.

 

Its funny though i find traditional manuals more user friendly for road use than paddles but to each his own. Youre right i dont see a need for ccbs and start buttons. 500hp is actually more usable on a nice long desserted highway than on a tight road course.

 

Although I'm not gonna lie, a very base line entry level fezza in manual only marketed heavily on the experience would be excellent. And I expect it to sell well.

 

The reason Ferrari no longer offers manual gearboxes is the exact same reason why they stopped offering wire wheels on cars: The technology got superseded and the demand fell to such a point as to make no longer worth continuing with!

The simple fact of the matter is, whether people on here like it or not, the Global demand for Ferrari's with manual gearboxes is just too small to make it a financially viable proposition!

As keeps being posted over and over again (just how hard is it to grasp the concept? ) - If there was enough demand for a manual car then Ferrari would make it but currently, despite the outcry on here, World-wide, the demand is not high enough!

 

I would not equate the MT vs Paddle Shifters and the same thing as Wire Wheels, since your not directly interacting with the wheels like you do the MT / Paddle shifters; although semi-automatics do allow AUTO mode.

I think the problem here is not that Ferrari enthusiasts don't want Manuals, but rather the people who are wealthy enough to afford a NEW Ferrari don't want them. Today's Ferrari tends to attract a very different purchaser than the classic ones did, IMO.

I would love to see a pole of anyone who has ever owned a Ferrari (not just New purchasers) on which transmission they would actually prefer.

 

Hit the nail on the head. I actually think ferrari would sell every car no matter what transmission was offered on account of the typical new purchaser only wants one as a status symbol. I really wish they just made pure raw sports cars. No power steering, manual windows, zero luggage room, and of course an MT. If i want a comfy fast ride ill take my BMW. Ferraris are supposed to be a plain raw racing experience for the road.

 

I don't think Ferrari's demographic has changed. Folks ALWAYS had to be wealthy to buy them.

Jimmy

 

If you would be the marketing manager of Ferrari Ferrari would be already bankrupt.

Nobody is paying for a status symbol so much money in a new car with zero technology and outdated functionality. You can buy oldies for this or a niche vendor product like an Ariel Atom. Nobody would buy today "eighties technology" in a Ferrari if you have the alternatives like McLaren or Lamborghini. The people buying a new car want to have the newest technologies and innovations. For buyers with the passion for the past and history there is the used car/classic car market.

You want to buy a raw sports car? What is wrong with the Speciale or, with a little bit more money, the LaFerrari? Too comfortable? Too much luggage room? Too sharp to drive? Are you really comparing these cars with a BMW?

 

Porsche seems to disagree; and the ain't stupid last time I checked.

The incremental cost of a manual gear box (plus a clutch pedal) can't be all that high relative to a car costing two hundred grand. After all, it's not like they're going to have to invent some kind of new technology. If necessary, offer the manual at a premium.

If buyers are paying for special colored seat stitching and a cup holder option for prices which would buy a pretty nice ordinary car, they they will pay for a manual transmission.

 

Yes, it always took a rich guy to buy a Ferrari, but back in the day Ferrari purchasers made their money the old fashioned way .............. they inherited it. These guys learned how to shift on their daddy's cast-off Iso Rivolta IR 300.

Now rich guys get that way by starting a Dot Com business or some other artificial way far removed from the real world. Not knowing what a clutch pedal is for, is natural for this sort of person.

 

Porsche disagrees but yet their latest 7 speed 3 pedal appears to be awful. Difficult to select proper gears and have good feel to it.

Offering a 3 pedal with one less gear isn't going to cut the mustard either.

Maybe a car manfucturer will offer a 3rd pedal but still have paddle shifters. The gated shifter is the limitation these days. Having to physically select the gear as we add more and more gears becomes the problem.

So push in 3rd pedal clutch and up shift via right paddle and downshift via left paddle and better yet offer a gear level handle much like BMW offers. Push in clutch and pull stick down.

I really don't know what the issue is for those complaining of paddle. Is the fact that the 3rd pedal is missing the key or is it they want to be able to row threw the gears.

 

Very interesting.

I have to admit, having clutch control with Paddle shifters seems very intriguing, if it can be accomplished.

The only thing you lose is directly accessing any gear, as paddles only work in sequential manner.

 

Is Ferrari "stupid?"

The F430 was pretty much the perfect experiment to determine whether there was or wasn't sufficient demand for a 3-pedal Ferrari.

One doesn't have to like it, but it seems ridiculous to lecture Ferrari on their business when direct experience with actual paying customers suggests the demand is not there.

 

I would love a production car with a sequential manual transmission

 

I sure am. Bmws are fast comfortable and an absolute joy to drive.

Speciale and laferrari are fine, but without a clutch pedal i dont even Dream of owning one.

 

I have been saying forever my problem isnt with the paddles but rather the lack of a third pedal. Im pretty sure it be fine with paddles to change gears as long as i have a clutch to push though im pretty sure id forget what gear i was in without looking at the screen. With a traditional gearshift one can simply feel the gear.