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Enzo Ferrari

Discussion in 'F1' started by RP, Aug 14, 2015.

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  1. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,856
    #26 DeSoto, Aug 17, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
    He probably would approve: more cars sold, more money for the races. Also remember that your "old times" are the "new times" for those older than you. The car in your avatar was already a mass produced Ferrari of the FIAT era. And without a V12: blasphemy!

    P.S: and yes, I wished that Ferrari was a more "romantic" company. But to win sometimes you have to be ruthless! I prefer an "alive and kicking" Ferrari to a romantic but decadent Ferrari (like the British Rolls Royce or Morgan).
     
  2. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,856
    He made those 312Ps for the 3 liter era. And then the 512s, but that's another story.

    He kept busy anyway in sports cars during those years. Until he ran out of money, I guess.
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882
    Yes, he made the 312P, but one year later anyway: they were not ready for 1968 and arrived 1 year later. Only 3 were built, and had to face the FordGT40, Lola T70MKIII and Porsche 917 in an unequal fight. Wrong car at the wrong time.

    The 512S was an afterthought, I think. Just an attempt to match Porsche and sell cars to clients. The engine was gross, and the chassis outmoded when it first came out; not Ferrari's best effort. During the second year of existence, the Scuderia withdrew and left privater to carry the Ferrari name in endurance. The 512S and M never received the sort of detail and attention Porsche gave to the 917. even when it left private teams, or semi-works team race them. Enzo Ferrari's refusal to supply part to Roger Penske who was building the fastest 512M that ever existed is an indication. The blue SUNOCO-Kirk White 512M developed by Mark Donohue and fitted with a Traco-modified V12 was head and shoulders above anything Porsche or Maranello could field, but never received the support it deserved.

    I don't think money ran out, but Ferrari had lost the plot by then.
     
  4. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    14,026
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    TRue, the Sunoco car proved the 512 had indeed great potencial and could beat the 917, it simply needed more development, but by then Ferrari was only interested in the 312PB....and we could see the results, by 72 they won every single race they contested...
     
  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882
    True, but most of the opposition was gone by then. Only Matra and Mirage were left, and Alfa came later.

    It's also good to notice that whilst the 312PB raced for 3 years, they only entered Le Mans once (if my memory is correct), and were defeated by Matra. Forghieri said once that the 312PB wasn't a car for 24 hours races.

    Presumably Ferrari switched his attention from the 512 to the PB once the rules banishing the 5L sports cars category were published. The 512S & M had been a stop-gap. I think many of them were unsold after 2 years and transformed in different guises to keep racing in CanAm, Interseries, etc...

    But it was a marvellous era ...
     
  6. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    12,085
    FRANCE
    True: only in 1973, but WHAT A RACE!
    With a little luck, any of the three 312 PBs entered could have won: the Yellow-striped one (Ickx/Redman) the Green-striped one (Pace/Merzario) or the Blue-striped one (Reutemann/Schenken).
    Forghieri prepared an evolution of the 312 PB for the 1974 endurance season, that was actually tested at the Paul Ricard during the winter of 1973/74, but as you said above, William, Niki Lauda was convinced that Ferrari would not be able to win two wars, and convinced Di Montezemolo in turn: both of them prevailed with Enzo Ferrari, and Ferrari left the endurance races for good.
    It was their gain, for they conquered the Championship in Formula One in 1975 (Constructors and Drivers) but, to me at least, it was our loss in Endurance racing. Sadly forever; well, at least until today that is!

    Rgds
     
  7. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,182
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    I dont think Enzo ever really cared where his cars were sold ...or who sold them... Luigi Chinetti and Bill Harrah... and Otto Zipper were the early importers... and they were not excatly the most ... ( fill in the blank ) folks... as long as they kept sending in the money he did not care.
     
  8. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,182
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    To Enzo Ferrari LeMans was more important to him personally than F-1. however in about 1970 the tied turned against Sports cars when Advertizing came into F-1. there was way more money at stake. the organizers would not pay the same $$$ for Sports cars as for F-1 becuase they made more money with advertzing doing F-1 races.

    that coupled with the metal workers strikes of the late 60's and union issues caused him to slow down the Sports car racing side. but 72 & 73 still show how good Ferrari could be when they won every race they were entered into except LeMans where they led but broke early in the race. Porsche was supported by VW sales & the sales network... Ferrari was running out of money to do racing and keep the road cars going ... all the emissions work for USA and Common Market cars ( EU ) ... so that is when he sold up to FIAT.

    in 73 - Montezemolo had a conversation with Giani Angelli about racing... it seemed that they could only be successful in one category or the other. F-1 was rightly seen as the way to do, so Angelli approached Ferrari about abandoning Sports cars... and he went for it... but it cost Angelli $2M to be paid to Ferrari over next 3 years. ( Mauro Forghieri tells that story in his book as well as Franco Gozzi - Giorgio Nada series)

    that coupled with Forghieri - Montezemolo and Lauda led to 3 world Championships in a row 75-76-77 ( Constructors WDC's) ... that was all Ferrari cared about.
     
  9. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    2,919
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Billy
    That's part of life my friend. Nothing is the same anymore. Even if all the people were still alive, they would have to keep up and stay updated with the technology and the demand. So they wouldn't be the same either. For example, Enzo used to say that if its not a V12, its not a ferrari. Bringing this thinking and mentality in todays world, Ferrari wouldn't be able to survive and have any sales. Enzo would have to go against he personal beliefs in order for his company to succeed. Thats what his successors did!
     
  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882

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