Enzo or McLaren F1?

Looking at the spoiler of the silver one it appears to be a Sportec version which is a modified GT1 97 Spec car (though they built some of them in 98) See : http://www.flat-6.net/view.php?model=Sportec&sel=Sportec+GT1&tab=oview

One of them is a 97 and appears to have been raced by Bob Wollek so it's not a steet car.

The other one also appears to be a 97 spec though it could have been built in 98.

This is supposdely what the 98 GT1 looks like and none of those in the pictures look the same.

98 GT1 http://www.flat-6.net/view.php?model=996&sel=996+GT1+Strassenversion+(1998)&tab=oview


Jon

98 GT1 w/ 600 hp !!!
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Check this link it verifies that only 1 was built : http://www.internationalsupercars.com/news/may/gt1.htm

Quote from the article:

"It is also important to mention that the 1997 version of the GT1 is distinctly different from the 1996 and 1998 road cars. Many of the revisions reflect the evolution of the racing model which include a new design language introduced with the Boxster. As far as production, ONLY ONE 1998 car and a few 1996 GT1s were sold. Twenty of the road-going GT1s have the 1997 configuration, still making them one of the rarest modern day Porsches."

Apparently some customers could opt for the 600 hp engine in the 97 spec car. But this is like Ferrari allowing you to stick a F40 LM engine in the road car.

Jon

 

LOL...! Thanks, Jon... i'll speak with Wayne to see if i can get him to verify it's authenticity... Will Bruce's word do...?


The Porsche 962 LM goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds. It is one bad-ass car... It's on my list of all-time favorite cars... Was supposed to see one last year...


Aventino, yes, i AM attached to the NNO... Used 550s where...? For what...? How is that relevant...? i'd like to see you make 300 examples of something you've never made before and see if they're perfect... Don't get me wrong, i think these cars should at least stay together, but that's my point; i haven't heard of any NNOs just falling apart in someone's garage or while they're out cruising...

 

22 mpg? I would like to see those reports! And as far as speed goes, you have to be skilled no matter which car you're pushing. I would say both are very hard to drive. But if you buy them, hopefully you can drive them properly.

 

Teatacojones,

I back up Jon in his explanation that the F1 tested in 1997 R&T had worn tires and a slipping clutch. They came back from the tests and the set of tires had to be replaced. The car needed help being unloaded from the trailer as the clutch was slipping bad enough that it would not get itself up over the lip of the ramp. $5K later it had a new clutch. Like I said, we tested it at 0-60 mph in 3.4 and 0-100 in 6.1 with the new clutch and good tires on a moderate temperature day. I never posted any other times but one more we did was 0-140 in 10.8. We had no means to measure g forces on the skidpad as we are not a magazine testing company.

As to your attacks on him, I would not really want to do that. Jon has quite a bit of competition experience and is a certified performance car nut and has probably already forgotten more about performance cars than you have amassed in your reading of car magazines. Remember, temper what you read with some doubt and only believe it if you see it done yourself. Even better if you get to drive the car yourself. Then you have a base of knowledge that cannot be questioned. If you have driven it yourself, you have an experience that is truly yours and that cannot be taken away. People question me repeatedly with doubt about what I experienced while driving the McLaren F1. They can question all they want, I was the one who was driving it, not them.

Jon, I stand amazed at how you can pull up all this info on the various cars. Good job.

 

Oh and Testacojones,

I took the time to check out your profile to see what you base your vast knowledge of these cars on. I found you have left it blank. How about filling it in and letting us know where you have gotten your experience to actually rank these cars. Have you driven either one of them? Do you own a Ferrari or have you ever driven one? Have you ever raced in a sanctioned event? Have you ever been through any driving courses such as Bondurant or Skip Barber? I would be interested to know and I am sure others would also. If you have the experiece and a real base of knowledge I will respect that and accept what you say with more validity. If what you espouse is just coming from magazine research you have done, that diminishes the way I value it tremendously.

 

Rudy,

You cannot find a non AMG Mercedes currently built that has 612hp. The CL600 has the same engine as the SL & S600. It has 493hp. The CL65 which is an AMG car has 612hp. And it cannot be purchased for as low as $170,000. This car also will not compare to either the Enzo or the F1 in anything but a straight line, and even then, just barely.

Greg A

 

Last week I was given an opp. to buy a street-legal (in Europe) DTM racecar replica that AMG-MB is coming out with. Apparently they will build 200, and I am not sure if any are coming stateside. I believe 500 hp and around 120k GBP, so about $200k USD. Is this the car you are talking about?

 

The ENZO should have been design inside like a F1 car with the driver seat in the middle so you can take two people with you like the Mclaren.

 

what do you guys think of the SLR McLaren?

 

Don't know about him being a certified performance car nut but I can tell you from first hand observation that he can flat out (no pun intended) drive.

Jon was nice enough to give me a 20 minute session in his Challenge car at Summit Point last Spring and I was blown away at what both he and the car were capable of. From the waiting list of people who wanted a ride I'd say he's pretty darned fast.

In addition I watched him hound David Murry (factory Porsche racer who has competed at LeMans and Daytona) for an entire session. Murry was in a Porsche GT3. Murry was faster but not by much!

Jon, sorry to see you sold the Challenge car. What's next on your list?

Regards,

Andrew Fuller

 

Your talking about the CLK DTM replica no ? and they are talking about the CL65 that is built on command only and for more than 200 000$..

They will introduce a SL65 as well..

 

I think its a POSER.Just another big Merc with big HP ..and autobox.

Plus its way overpriced and looks like a shoe..

For 1/3 you can buy an SL55 that offers 7/10 of the performance..looks so much nicer , is both a convertible and a coupe .

 

Andrew,
yes, the DTM replica. And yes, agreed on the SLR looks--from what I have read, despite all the auto-aids, it's still very rewarding to drive. Still wouldn't want one, though.

 

Ugly. And automatic gear box... I don't know, I guess it's just a big GT. Merc should make an all out supercar like the CLK GTR.

 

I wouldn't buy it - for the same price you can get a Porsche Carrera GT - which is a much better car. Did I mention far better.

I will say this, I like the way the SLR looks. They have also sold out the first 3 years of prodcution at 500 per year. They are planning 3,500 over 7 years (If I remember correctly). Not bad for a $440K car.

 

Investment Appeal: McLaren, due to rarity.
Track Performance: McLaren, due to history.
Street Performance: A draw, since both would be unbelievable.
Mystique Factor: A draw.
Design/Aesthetics: Enzo.

Final Choice: Enzo, but a very difficult choice.

 

I've seen the F1 in the metal on quite a few occasions - on the road too...
For a car with it's performance it is sooo boring to look at.
The extra G that an Enzo can pull and the few tenths faster the McLaren accelerate are meaningless to me.
The downsides of each car are Enzos relentless trickery (F1 box etc/ASR/..) and McLarens boring design.

Only reason that the F1 is so "EXCLUSIVE" is because no-one wanted one so they struggled to sell 68 road cars and gave up.

For me -Enzo wins, JUST, despite the F1 gearbox.

 

Simply not true. Demand for this car always exceeded supply. Even today, McLaren maintains a list of buyers willing to pay the asking price. It's a long one. Despite the very high asking price, McLaren was losing money on each car. The more they sold, the more they would have lost. That's why they decided to end production.

You realize that it's made of carbonfibre, not metal...right?
What colors/configurations have you seen on the road, and at what speeds? Any pictures? I drove one last week, and got it up to 135mph on the B roads around Basingstoke. Awesome fun, but I wish we had taken it to a track or airfield instead. I am back in the US now, but still high from the experience.

 

Well the poll is over and even after 10+ years the F1 still beat the Enzo as the car to have and on a Ferrari site no less.

I think we need to also consider where each car comes from. Ferrari has to answer to some stodgy bean couters at FIAT which at the time of the design of the Enzo was having major financial problems.

Gordon Murray on the other hand gave himself free reign and said to hell with it, were not going to be constrrained by anything, least of all money, so I think that does have some bearing on the matter.

In the end I don't think any of us would be disappointed with either car.

Audiguy and Andrew, thanks for the compliments on my driving skill. Being fast is one thing, being fast every lap is another. I am just a club racer/track fanatic who on occasion can keep up with the more talented drivers who earn a paycheck racing cars.

The difference between an amateur and a pro, is that an amateur might set a few fast laps now and then, but the pro's do it every single lap and don't even think about it.

Andrew, how's the 348 C hunt going. There's one on Ebay but not sure it's the type you are looking for.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net
Future F1 owner some day (after I win the Powerball lottery).

 

I find it amusing when people say they'd take the Enzo cos the McLaren has no heritage.

 

Jon thought you'd enjoy this pic.

 

#2

 

The great man himself (Gordon M.)

Jim what did you think of the car? I know it doesn't have the visual appeal of the GT40's but it sure does have a lot in common with those cars (both won LeMans).

Regards,

Jon