Espada,....to buy or not to buy now,....?

I suppose at some point the car will increase but that will be determined by the folks that put the big money on the table on a regular basis.
Perfect Espadas and Jaramas are fetching in the 60's.
The Islero was the last one to shoot up....and it did quickly. Then the economy took a dump.
The Islero could have been the catalyist for the Espada and Jarama but we will never know.
One of my thoughts is that every year that goes by is a year further back a carbed V-12 was in a car.

 

As a good friend said to me The Espada " The connoisseurs choice"!! Any of them.

 

who cares about the money
buy it
fix it
drive it
wash it
show it
drive it
fix it
love it



Gary
8394

 

Buy the very best mechanical and cosmetic car, you can locate.




When you buy an Indy, Testarossa, Jarama, 412, Espada, 365 GTC/4, Mistral, and Islero; the bargain, is the car that needs absolutely nothing.

 

as for passion and joy to own-drive: yes, buy one

as Ralph said, locate the best car you can and enjoy it since day one

as for investment purpose: i do not believe the espada will be a good investment...too many built and too many cheap-less than average conditions cars in the market keep the prices low

the islero went up tks to its rarity and good look, jarama and espadas will have an hard time following the islero for different reasons

 

I think that esapada prices will go up in the future. They were not that common as only 1200 approx build but so few actually left! I think most people think about 400 or so world wide. If values do go up then more may surface. When they ere so cheap a lot fell into bad hands and were butchered and a hell of a lot scrapped for parts. Eurospares in the UK dont know how many they have parted out but it's a LOT!
Problem with them is the cost of restoring them.
Same mechanicals as a countach or muira to restore
Twice the body size and did rust quite a bit
Three times the trim of either of them
So if it costs £70000 to fully restore and espada and the values are £20-40,000 who would do it for money?
What is left are either the few original good cars or more likely the restored ones
I agree with the earlier poser. Buy it to enjoy. It is a big comfortable stylish tourer which handles and goes!
Paul
xx

 

If anyone knows of one that's ready to go, I'm looking. Not looking for a restoration project, but not Pebble Beach either. She will be driven, often.

Series I or II, euro spec (no side blinkers, bumpers, etc.), mag wheels, etc.

Thanks much.

Bill

 

The Espada has been around for a long time. It will not increase in value. Any increase in prices, will likely be due to less value of currencies.

 

10 years ago an aston matrin DBS ( 4 headlight car) 1969 era was the dog of the Aston car world routinley changing hands for 15k sterling much poo pooed by the motoring press etc etc .... and now a good example is approaching 100k sterling. I for one saw this coming but really surprizing how a change in attitude over the years and since DB5s are now a quarter mil pounds........everything underneath gets pushed up.


Never say never


gary
8394

 

That's my thought as well. One thing about the Espada, it's an acquired taste. I like em, but when I've expressed this idea to other car friends, they look at me like I've finally lost my marbles .

 

I must say that I agree. I have owned a Series 1 and a Series 3. The Series 3 was one of the best in the world as a previous owner had spent $125,000 restoring it in 2005. I love these cars and think they are awesome to drive. However, they are viewed by most of the world, even other car guys -- even other Italian car guys -- as strange and very much an acquired taste. That doesn't seem like a recipe for fantastic investment performance. Never say never, but it is not where I would park investment dollars. Fun, performance, take 3 other people for a ride in an Italian exotic dollars -- yes.

I agree with all who have said to buy the best. Absolutely buy the best you can. I love Lamborghini's (I own a Countach now and have owned 2 other Countach's, the 2 Espada's, a Miura S, a Urraco, and 2 Diablo's). The sad fact is Lambos were not made well -- really until Audi bought the company and infused some quality (we can all debate about whether they took the "soul" out of Lamborghini but that's for another thread). The build quality is very poor and with the low values of Espada's, many (maybe most) have had insufficient maintenance. Problem is they cost as much as a Miura to maintain.

All this being said, Espadas are incredible cars. Just don't expect massive financial returns.

Kirk

 

Well if that post doesn't dissuade him then he's hooked! :>)

BTW, all badly neglected Italian cars had "poor build quality".

Take a close look at a Daytona undergoing a full bare metal restoration. Construction quality ... it's a piece of junk.

I think Kirk is exactly right though. You will probably loose lots of money unless you find one like he did.

 

Echoing sentiments of others - as much as I'd love to find a great Espada, I'd never consider buying one as an investment. There just is not a big market for 2+2 collectibles. That said, you might still end up selling it for more than you bought it for over time, due to inflationary pressures, and parts value.

 

Bob -- I agree on badly neglected Italian cars...

However, I have a 73 Daytona, and keeping in mind that everything is relative (huge caveat), I am impressed with its build quality over the early Lambos I have had. (Now I have jinxed myself, and the Daytona will fall to pieces.) May not be saying much, I realize. That is a very difficult thing for me to say given how much I love vintage Lambos... I know you have Masers and understand that they are much better in build quality.

Mind you, on a slightly tangential subject of totally different cars and quality, I have in the past couple of years looked closer at 1950's Cadillacs -- I had never really looked at cars like that before -- I am really impressed with the quality of those cars. I guess that was back when they were the "Standard of the World". Really quite amazing to me -- especially for a kid who got his driver's license in 1976 and saw all of the crap that GM started building in the 70's and 80's.

Back to the topic -- Espada's are cool, exciting, fast cars -- don't buy one to invest.

Kirk

 

for years i looked at 365 GTC/4's. as we all remember, they sat in the $45 to 65k range. for a long time. it was 2+2, controversial styling (the swollen lips), so on. then, bam - a big step up. 18 months ago, maybe. first real movement for that car since the orgy of the late 80's.

i for one hope not too soon. i'm busy looking for one to buy and DRIVE.

 

Hi Kirk,

I'd always heard that about Espadas and when I got mine I was pleasantly surprised at how much better it turned out to be. I don't think it's as well built as my Bora but that one has some issues as well. All Italian exotics have issues that make you shake your head.

I haven't owned the Espada long enough driven it enough. It already had 30K miles and 35 years on it before I saw it. The Maserati's were all new or almost new. I performed all of the abuse & neglect.

From a construction standpoint I think I'd much rather have the Espada than a Miura or Countach. So as it relates to the thread title Espada:

Foibles:

Drive-shaft to differential coupling.

The entire fuel system is just a horrible design. OK the facet pump is fine. I'm not a big DCOE fan as they're placed on this car. The linkage is not my favorite either.

Roof and rear hind quarter drainage. It's in there and it has some big issues.

Front chin - no drainage. I found several of my tool kit wrenches sitting in there though. No record of the curse words that must have accompanied those incidents!

Steering links & gearbox are issues as it can crack the frame.

Steering wheel placement is poor. A manual tilt & telescope system like all the Maseratis had would greatly benefit this car.

Don't drive the car in a heavy downpour. The wipers and watertight aspects of this car are dubious.

Dash & ventilation controls that will continue to mystify even after years of ownership. I guess if you drive it every day or jave a perfect memory. Not!

Stupid parts pricing on a bunch of stuff. Not easy to find a lot of things either. Parts cars are very scarce. They always seem to be for sale @ $30K listed as "good runners".

OK - On to the good stuff.

It looks fantastic to me! I always wanted one from the first day I saw & sat in one as a very young man.

It does draw the looks. Very few even know what it is. Everyone knows what a Countach is. But they're the right kind of looks and result in some interesting gas station conversations. The fuel filling mystery always generates interest even if it is rather dumb.

The ride is really top flight. I was pleasantly surprised by just how modern a ride and chassis it had. Dallara got it very right. It's a much nicer riding car than say a Daytona or any of the solid axle Maseratis.

The engine sound is fantastic if rather noisy for a GT car.

The front seats are reasonably comfortable with lots of adjustment for a large guy.

The cabin space is rather commodious but I think 4 adults is pushing things.

So many of the visual design details are just wonderful especially in the S1 and earlier S2 cars. I was by the side of the road fiddling with the Webers one day out in rural NJ and a guy stopped by who used to be a designer for Ford and he was telling me how Ford had bought one to study (and copy a bit, his words) for the Mustang Mach II project. Four of them took it to lunch everyday and he just loved it. In the few years I've owned this one I have a number of stories like that.

And this car just oozes exotic. One of my friends says this looks like what George Jetson would drive to work.

Bob S.

I do love the Daytona Kirk.

 

I still think my car has to be the nicest car in the USA..with well over $75K documented dollars spent on it at George Evans, from top to bottome..there is little left to do but drive it and enjoy it. I recently has it returned this week from its annual winter service, fluids, filters and replaced a fan that had gone bad. It was sun shine and 45 degrees yesterday and it was a pleasure to go in the garge, have it fire right up and take for a 30 minute rump and yes I het 3 digit speed on the freeway...and it was just gliding along with little effort singing its V-12 song from the great exhaust system.

Would love to see it go to a board member..FREE shipping in the lower 48 USA States!

http://www.catsexotics.com/web/1317/vehicle/684967/1976-Lamborghini-Espada-Series%203
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this is an espada to buy (imo)

with espada, urracos, jaramas the FIRS rule is: get the BEST car you can or you will regret it later (believe me, a so and so car will swallow money, a bad one will be a financial nightmare!)
stay far far far away from the bad espadas

 

Roy -- you have a pm

 

One other foible I had with both my cars and wondering if others have had it -- both of my cars had a strong gasoline smell inside the cabin -- not exhaust -- gasoline. Others have this problem?

Kirk

 

IMO, NOBODY has a crystal ball..

BUT, I do recall just a few short years ago that I could buy Miuras for under 250K as well as DD countachs for 75K..

But for me, it is about the pleasure of the car..if it makes money fine, but I dont bank on it..I DRIVE them and have fun..

 

Yeah, this comes under the cover of the horribly designed fuel system.

It's a bit long and complicated issue to cover completely here. It's been done already over on VLG.

One main culprit Kirk is the fuel fill neck to gas tank hose. It's designed in such a way that it doesn't allow much room for proper sealing. The hose is barely 2" long too. That makes for a fun installation. Those hoses were venting fumes in my car. The actual gas tank vent lines on the earlier cars are a pretty hilarious design too but I don't think they're cause fumes. Then there's the rubber fuel hose that runs along the LH side of the interior under the carpet! Even when it's a brand new high quality hose it still lets fumes escape through the rubber. So on a hot day the car invariably stinks. I re-replaced this as my last act on the fuel system with a solid metal line. Plus I replaced the carpet pads on that side. That finally fixed the issue. This is all DIY type work that's not horribly expensive. If your tanks aren't horribly rusted and just have some at the bottom you can do those yourself as well with the Bill Hirsch kit and a length of chain. That's expensive if you send it out or your tanks are a mess.

Think of the gas tanks as being in the back seat with a hose running up to the dash through the firewall to the DCOEs because that's exactly what it is! Only the fuel filter and pump are out of the interior. Gee, how'd they miss those?

The fuel filter hangs directly over the top of the RH muffler pipe. Easy to get at and no risk of fire right? That's pretty easy to move somewhere else.

On an older car that's not been restored or had incredible maintenance by a god of an owner I'd expect to be doing the entire fuel system plus a carb rebuild. After 30+ years it's probably long over due.

Lot's of old Italian cars have similar issues ...

 

I've always had gas smell in the trunk of the Jarama. Then it would fade and come back. Come to find out, every time I added a few gallons of gas, a couple of drips leaked down the neck to the tank. Yes, the connection between the neck and tank is awful. the new hose on there is too thick to seal it. Plus I can not tighten clamps any more than they are. When I get the car back from Chad, I have a couple of idea how to seal it for good.

 

Peter,

I'm not sure if the Jarama is an identical situation but I found that installation of the new filler hose was a lot easier if you loosen up the straps on the tank and roll the tank a bit to facilitate sliding it on the tank neck and body mounted filler neck. I also switched to a narrower hose clamp as the original was not fitting properly. I used a rolled edge Norma clamp sourced from West Marine. You can check the seal of the system by pressurizing to about 3 lbs and seeing if it holds over time.

Bob S.