ESPIONAGE IN F1 - Toyota vs Ferrari | FerrariChat

ESPIONAGE IN F1 - Toyota vs Ferrari

Discussion in 'F1' started by RP, Apr 24, 2007.

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  1. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    Two former Scuderia employees were found guilty of industrial espionage in a Modena court. Following their stint at Maranello, they went to work for Toyota.

    Both men were initially sentenced to jail for crimes including unauthorized use of Ferrari computers and misappropriation of Ferrari files. Sentences were suspended.

    Both individuals were dismissed when Toyota heard of the accusations. It was never determined that Toyota itself was responsible for promoting any of the crimes.

    Nevertheless, even with spying, Toyota still can not get their F1 program to work as it should.
     
  2. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    No kidding! Let the jokes begin.
     
  3. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    6,082
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Heard the same story in 1989

    After Honda went on a two year winning streak.... Ferrari hired all Honda's people to build the Ferrari team that swept 7 years in F1

    Honda had dropped out of F1, so no crime... but it does hint at where that Quality and reliability came from durring the MS years

    Heard story that Honda's Cheif engineer in Japan, would get calls all-the-time from his old team of engineers now working in Italy to fix Ferrari's team.
     
  4. Simba

    Simba Formula Junior

    Oct 24, 2006
    779
    New York
    Toyota's F1 effort has been one step away from a farce since they began it. I wish they'd go back to WRC and JGTC where they kicked butt and took names for a very long time.

    'course, that would require that they start making cars that aren't targeted at the twigs and sprouts crowd.
     
  5. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,430
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    So Ferrari used all of Honda's people those 7 years
     
  6. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    These teams are like governments. They each know pretty much exactly what the other is up to.
     
  7. red355

    red355 Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2007
    296
    Pa
    So your saying Rory Burne, Paol Martinelli, and everyone else worked for Honda?
     
  8. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    6,082
    Clearwater, FL
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    Mark
    Nope.... but if you want to dig deep and follow the technology, you can find some really interesting Japanese history, beyond the official Ferrari story-lines.

    This thread just makes me laugh because some of the roots of the technology that Ferrari bought from team Honda back in 1990, ...that went on to be developed into the best team in F1. And, is now being stolen by Toyota. LOL Kind of an interresting story from that point-of-view....when you look at Japanese back-stories in F1..
     
  9. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    One step away from a face? They scored two points in their inaugural F1 season, 2002 not too bad. Then in 2003 they scored 16 points. Again not too bad for the youngest team on the grid. Then in 2004 they maintained 8th place in the constructor’s championship with only 9 points. They missed moving up to 7th by 1 point. Then in 2005 they had multiple podium finishes and leapt up to 4th place in the CC with 88 points. Ralph took 6th in the driver’s championship with 45 point and Jarno took 7th with 43 points. Podiums were 2nd place in Malaysia for Jarno (+24 sec) Ralph in 5th. Jarno 2nd Place in Bahrain (+13.4 secs) with Ralph in 4th. Jarno 3rd with Ralph in 4th for the Spanish GP. Ralph 3rd in Hungary with Jarno 4th. Final Race in China Ralph with a 3rd. When they weren’t on the podium they consistently were in the top 10. How is that a farce? :confused: 2006 was a slide backwards with 35 points amassed and sixth in the CC after switching to the Bridgestones. The Toyotas performance has always been tied to getting the tires to work right. When they've been able to do so they've been front runners when they haven't been able to they've struggled. Even in 2005 that was the case. For 2006 they should have stayed with the old tires along with everyone else.

    Then this year they’re currently 5th in the standings despite having a dreadful car and the control tires. Granted they do have the largest amount of funds to work with, but as we all know F1 has a lot more to do with it than money. Just take a look at Honda and their current car. While last years and this years Toyota were disappointments this years Honda is just criminal.
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,624
    @ the wheel
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    Andreas
    F1 is one big incestuous family where I'd be very surprised if leaving engineers wouldn't take with them their notes on their laptops etc.

    Ferrari "stole" the Benetton's braintrust in the nineties just as much as Newey took his design ideas to Red Bull from McLaren to name just two examples.

    From that perspective I find the whole "espionage" allegations pretty ridiculous.
     
  11. ferraridude615

    ferraridude615 F1 Veteran

    May 4, 2006
    5,836
    Texas
    Watch out for Spyker!!! Here are another 2 teams that are sharing information, even though the sharing seems to be a 1 way street.
     
  12. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    6,082
    Clearwater, FL
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    Mark
    Thanks

    Interview with Mr. Uehara, creator of NSX -
    “Ferrari lured most of our F1 Engineers to design engines for their F1 and road cars - After our (Honda) withdraw from F1 in 1992. Mr. Gato (Head of Honda V10 and V12 F1 Engine Program between 1988 to 1992) used to often called me from the Ferrari factory (where he was working) and telling me (jokingly) they really should slap a big H on the Ferrari's Engine Block and Ferrari F1 cars were powered by Honda.”
     
  13. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,192
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Anthony T
    Mr. O was privately a big Ferrari fan from a long time ago, he had issues with Lauda, but he did give P Martinelli a lot of discipline in the engine department which helped from the 96 car on.
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,737
    The twilight zone
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    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    It certainly appears they were feed mis-information.....and honda must have spies at toyota :)
     

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