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Ethanol Free Gas

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Kevin Rev'n, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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    #1 Kevin Rev'n, Jan 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I read a nice thread awhile back about it but I dont think it was in this section. A co-worker was asking me about what gas I put in my F car and told me about a gas station that was advertising this gas. I went to check it out and they did have it but it was 89 octane. The 92 octane, which I believe is recommended for my car, is E-10 gas. I bought a gallon for my new lawnmower though. Check that price. Is there any benefit to trying the ethanol free. I go through a tank per month on average. Yes that's 4.60/gal!!!!
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  2. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

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    Kevin, there is very little important benefit to use ethanol free gas on most new cars. Ethanol attacks some rubber that was common on pre older cars. The new cars use or did use vitron or something like it which is okay for the modern cars. Some countries use only ethanol based gas no oil at all. There cars are design for it.

    I am not sure what year each manufacturer changed thier rubber so you can use thanol. Ethanol is a smart way to strech our crude oil reserves.

    I would use the gas recommended in your owners manual including the octane. Most modern cars will change the timing if you use lower octane gas by mistake. Low octane makes a car engine ping and changing the timing protects the engine.

    Best

    Lee
     
  3. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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    Of all the cars that come into my shop here in Hawaii it is a majority damaged by E10 left long term in half full or less gas tanks. Last bill for a 280SL was nearly $6000. The alcohol picks up tank condensation and is converted to acid and eats the aluminum and swells/ disintegrates older rubber. The stuff is a disaster. You would be better off just dumping a gallon of water in your tank every fill up. It would be cheaper and there would be less damage plus you will get the same gas mileage with water.
     
  4. V-TWELVE

    V-TWELVE Formula 3

    Jan 1, 2007
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    I always figured it is used just to "cut" the gasoline and conserve the oil. At 8 or 10 percent that equates to a lot of saved oil. I have always wondered how many gallons of gas they could distill from a barrel of crude. I think I'll look it up.
     
  5. V-TWELVE

    V-TWELVE Formula 3

    Jan 1, 2007
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    Wow! Not what I thought at all. I thought the thinning of the oil would result in a lot more gas being produced. Here is what I read:

    "How many gallons of gasoline does one barrel of oil make?
    U.S. refineries produce about 19 gallons of motor gasoline from one barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil. The remainder of the barrel yields distillate and residual fuel oils, jet fuel, and many other products. Refinery yields of individual products vary from month to month as refiners focus operations to meet demand for different products and maximize profits."

    It's about 10 gallons of Diesel also.
     
  6. 412fan

    412fan Karting

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    Ethanol has a very high octane number, and is thus good for boosting the octane of fuel.
     
  7. V-TWELVE

    V-TWELVE Formula 3

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    I think it's bad for energy content, the more % they put in gasoline the less power you will get. An E85 engine has the ability to recalibrate for the different fuel I'm guessing.
     
  8. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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    The energy developed by ethanol is equal to the energy developed by H2O. Look at the bright side; at least your gas gauge will read full.
     
  9. 412fan

    412fan Karting

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    Considering that ethanol is quite flammable, I'm a bit curious about your statement. Ethanol has about 2/3 the energy density of gasoline.
     
  10. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
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    So does it make more sense to use 89 without ethanol or 92 with 10%?
    ...For a 10 year old Ferrari. (my 360 has a 24 gallon tank IIRC)
    Maybe a mix? I think that is what some of the guys in the Arizona thread were talking about.
    I don't like the idea of having 2+ gallons of "something other than gasoline" in my system if it is a problem.
     
  11. V-TWELVE

    V-TWELVE Formula 3

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    In Canada, Chevron 94 contains no Ethanol so that is the best performing fuel to run. They make you pay a lot for it, but the mileage does go up to help offset the cost.
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ethanol sucks but you need the octane.


    The only real advantage to ethanol is it is really making big agra and their lobby rich.
     
  13. Face76

    Face76 F1 Veteran
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    While ethanol may have less energy in it, it does reduce knock and increase pressure/temps for ignition which allows for a safer and higher boosted motor. I think adv/disadv of ethanol, or any other fuel, depends on its use and application.

    And I don't see anything wrong making the Ag industry rich. They can just step in line with all of the other fed supported industries.
     
  14. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

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    I knew it had less wnergy but was not sure of the numbers. Still it has a place in our energy world today.

    Best

    Lee
     
  15. Pass

    Pass F1 Veteran
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    Avgas or racing gas is the only way to go.
     
  16. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Rookie

    May 16, 2007
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    Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

    Ethanol has played havoc with motorcycles too. Around the middle of last decade plastic tanks became fairly common. Ethanol gas caused many to swell. Some manufacturers (Ducati being notable) are switching back to metal tanks.
     
  17. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

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    These high octane fuels only help you if you compression ratio is high enough to take advantage of the higher octane. Remember octane is a ratio of how that fuel combusted without pinging to a standard.

    If you use these gases on a VW bug or a Ford Focus as examples you are wasting your money. Just use the octane rating recomened by your owners manual. I know after I post this there will be a dozen back yard mechanics say this or that. The truth is it may make you feel faster but if your car is in good shape it does nothing or at best very little to improve anything. If your engine is highly modified it may be the "only way to go" as this poster states.

    The only additives that most people need is stabil if a car sits for 3 months or so. That is a very good product. The other is the gas lubricants on older cars. I use it in my 1954 and 65 Vettes. Modern gas is a dry gas and the older cars have valve trouble in about 12000 miles.

    Best

    Lee
     
  18. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

  19. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

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    Putting octane aside, I am not a fan of ethanol in gasoline. I have had a rash of fuel pump and fuel cell failures in my race cars over the past several years and I attribute them all to ethanol sitting in the tanks, absorbing atmospheric water and otherwise attacking softer components like hoses and gaskets and fuel bladders. If you regularly drive and keep fresh fuel in the tank, it is probably better, but for older cars or cars with fuel cells, I think it is worth it to find non-oxygenated (another euphemism for ethanol) fuels.

    Now on the other end of the spectrum, hotrodders, especially with turbo cars, love E85, as the octane content makes it worth dealing with. I have to think that stuff is poison to conventional fuel systems from a longevity and durability standpoint.

    I used to run methanol in a vintage indy car, and that stuff was horrible unless he car was actually running. You had to "pickle" the fuel system at the end of every race weekend.
     
  20. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

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    I am not a fan either. I suspect to have problems with my 54 and 65 vettes using this gas. It is only a matter of time unless these cars have been updated to run it. I am not sure.

    Brazil the last time I was there uses 100% ethanol. They import no oil or gas. GM and Ford sell cars in Brazil that use 100%.

    Best

    Lee
     
  21. Nativetroy

    Nativetroy F1 Veteran
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    Is it worth paying extra for non ethanol for your car? Not really. Unless its rarely used, or has a fiberglass tank or the old style fuel lines. Is it worth paying for it for your mower or boat, other toys that sit for long periods of time? Absolutely. Ethanol has been a huge issue for the marine industry. If I remember correctly, it finished its phase separation in about 2-3 months. So your tank has a layer of water on the bottom, alchohol, and the gas on top.
    That and it attacks the material the tanks of a lot of boats and lawn equipment use. I've dealt with it professionally and personally. I hate it...
    As for performance, E85 can make more power if tuned for it, but as a rule, most vehicles are less efficient running it. Especially the E10. Look at the fuel range sticker of newer car, the Ethanol range is usually 15-30% lower.

    So buying a gallon or two for your mower will probably help in the long run. Or using a fuel stabilizer product. But for you car, you're probably better off with the higher octane E10. Now of they push out E15 or E20 then things will be different I'm sure.
     
  22. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    I have station that sells 91 non-ethanol gas a few miles from my home. So, I use it in all my motorcycles and classic Porsche. I used it in my former BB512i too.
     

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