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Ethanol gas in Austin...

Discussion in 'Texas' started by jjsaustin, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. jjsaustin

    jjsaustin Formula Junior

    May 11, 2008
    579
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim
    A few months back I heard ethanol was coming to Austin, but could not find any details about any dates. I went to get gas last weekend and noticed the gas had switch to ethanol.
    I only checked a few gas stations.

    Is anyone else concerned about this gas sitting in your tank of your car for extended periods?

    Are there any stations in town that have non-ethanol gas?

    Thanks,

    -Jim
     
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  3. Axecent

    Axecent Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2008
    1,112
    Central Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    Much fraud going on in the ethanol blending biz....a friend in the Hill Country that has been testing fuels has told me of eggregious acts of high ethonol content and damage to various engine components.
     
  4. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 2, 2004
    49,145
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Why am I not surprised.

    How exactly did this whole ethanol escipade begin? Environmentalist/Govt. lies?
     
  5. TRScotty

    TRScotty Formula 3
    Owner

    Oct 12, 2006
    2,419
    Tyler, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scotty
    Yep
     
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  7. Staley

    Staley Rookie

    Oct 25, 2009
    43
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Mike Staley
    Sunoco 260 GTX 98 Octane Oxygen 0% Excellent fuel! and has a long shelf life.

    The 260 GT Plus 104 Octane is another excellent fuel, but now unfortunately
    has 4.8% Oxygen content.

    I always have 3 drums of this stuff at the shop. It's addictive.
     
  8. airdelroy

    airdelroy Formula Junior

    May 10, 2007
    418
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Aaron Richardson
    Has anyone seen ethanol free gas in the austin area recently? Every place I normally stop for gas has it. I would even drive out of my way for it.

    Aaron
     
  9. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    #8 speedmoore, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I hope we can find ethanol free gas.....in this town quick before every Ferrari & Porsche has problems like this.

    We started seeing problems a month ago with vintage Ferrari hoses disentegrating. Now we are seeing accelerated disentetation of all rubber parts in the fuel systems. The in tank fuel pumps have had issues in the past with the rubber getting crumbly and brittle when sitting for long periods of times but I'm afraid the ethanol in the fuel here in Austin now is only just now showing its ugly face.

    The photos below are from a 99 F355 fuel pump. The pump locked up from the rubber sleeve disentegrating within the screen.

    You all need to get out there and write your congressman and local elected officials.

    This ethanol in our gas is the biggest line of BS I've ever seen from so called "green" movement.

    Facts are it takes twice as much carbon to make ethanol as gasoline.
    It lowers your fuel mileage by 30%, so you have to burn more gas to go the same distance....and guess who is buying all the ethanol plants....you guessed it the oil companies. So now you burn 30% more fuel for the same dollars, which means they are basically getting a 30% increase in demand and up goes the price and up goes their profits.

    Not only does it eat rubber like its for breakfast, it also is extremely bad for aluminum components as it is highly corrosive towards thes materials which Ferrari are full of as are most modern internal combustion engines.

    I'm predicting a a host of fuel line failures in the next few months....hopefully they will be caught in time before the cause a fire.

    This link is to a 308 that burned up and it has been linked directly to the fuel filler rubber hose eaten away by ethanol fuel....there is a lawsuit I am told:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/05/earlyshow/main706202.shtml
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  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    74,299
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I've long suspected the Ethanol was damaging lines, at least dissolving long time varnish.

    Dave Helms shares your views, David...that it's BIG problems in Fcars, from fuel delivery systems to fuel tank (aluminum) corrosion, over the long term.

    I recall when Cadillac went to in tank pumps... certain gas additives would knock them right out!
     
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  12. -FROG-

    -FROG- Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Nov 3, 2003
    834
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Paul Daniels
    This is good info guys. Gonna keep my eyes out as well. Doesn't suprise me about oil companies being envolved like David mentioned. It's a shame....
     
  13. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    Its a big problem in ALL cars. It happened before but folks don't remember the old Gasahol problems.

    Yep, Dave and I are working on many solutions. He will have newly developed boots for the in tank pumps soon....I hope. He already has fuel lines for the post yellow spiral up to 348. We are working on the yellow spiral hose for the vintage cars. The later cars seem to have hoses capable of withstanding 10%, problem is he has busted a number of gas stations in his area sneaking the ethanol content higher than 15% which poses a real problem with some of the materials used.
     
  14. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    It has a great affinity for moisture and thus part of the corrosion issue. Indy car mechanics are well aware of this issue as they basically "pickel" the entire fuel system after each time the car is run on methanol....oh sorry uhuh ethanol (got to go green ;-) )
    My understanding it is so corrosive they run a gasoline/diesel mixture through the entire system to flush out any of the ethanol.

    Ethanol is also destroying the US cotton production and you will see another dependency of US consumer on foreign market.....China, India, Peru have jumped in to fill the loss of cotton farmers who have switched to corn because it is government backed and you get a much higher dollar per acre return on investment.....soybeans are also going this way as are other cash crops.....its also making feed prices for cattle soar and thus beef prices for you and I......what a "f'ng" great idea this ethanol.....it drives me crazy that the American public has followed along with a blind eye and I can't believe at least one politician has not bucked the system to bring the real facts before us and make a run for office on the truth of this bogus green movement.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe a lot of efforts going green are good, but this one is exact opposite of what is being pushed on us and is only going to cost everyone but the oil companies and car manufacturers more money.....oh and some politicians back pockets.

    Its certainly not going to hurt the auto repair business but we are playing with a dangerous combination and I'd rather not profit from crap like this......
     
  15. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 2, 2004
    49,145
    Houston
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    Jason
    How/why exactly did ethanol end up being put into the gas. Was it lead by the green movement? I'm assuming it's much much deeper than that.
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,571
    Farm lobby wanted to get in on the oil company profits, and saw their chance with food -> ethanol.

    What the average 1st world person gets: a: higher gas costs, b: higher taxes, c: higher repair costs, d: higher food costs.

    But, hey, What a bargain!
     
  17. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 14, 2005
    7,416
    H-Town, Tejas
    http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/GFM/Files/US_Gasoline_Map.pdf

    Take a look at the most current fuel map I was able to find. It is already out of date though since the ExxonMobil fuel FAQ states that MTBE is no longer used in their gasolines. The formerly MTBE areas now use ethanol as a requirement for EPA oxygenate requirements. What is happening is the "yellow" area of Texas is being pushed west to Austin and San Antonio by the EPA.

    Compare the 2009 map to 2007 below. Arizona now has 3 boutique requirements and look at Washington/Oregon.

    http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/Files/US%20Gasoline%20Map%20100102.pdf

    No one should be surprised by the pics David posted. They are the typical Ferrari quality materials like valve guides on 355s and 456s, melting dashboard/consoles, and other assorted rubber components. Carroll Smith wrote 20 years ago that the only hoses he would use on his race cars had to be USA (Gates or Dayco), German or Japanese, and that the rest was crap.
     
  18. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    Thanks for the map!

    Gates and Dayco hoses are not holding up to this stuff either though.
    It seem only PTFE lined hoses will ultimately stand up to it. Dave Helms has had most of the late carb and early injected hoses manufactured to his stringent specs from his research of ethanol affects and what it is what we are now stocking in bulk to use as the cars come in for hose replacements:

    http://www.scuderiarampanteinnovations.com/solutions.html#fuel
     
  19. airdelroy

    airdelroy Formula Junior

    May 10, 2007
    418
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Aaron Richardson
    I recently drove to CO via Lubbock and Santa Fe. EVERY place I stopped for gas had 10% ethanol. I think its everywhere at this point...

    Aaron
     
  20. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    From south Georgia to Baytown was that way when I drove back to Austin Christmas holidays
     
  21. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    74,299
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Mercury Racing went to the PTFE with the first 'whisper' of these additives.
     
  22. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    Me and everyone else who was pro racing in IMSA back in 1995 found out what fuel additives can do.

    Exxon was the sponsor back then and introduced a new 100 octane unleaded race fuel. It made huge #'s on they dyno, best of any unleaded race fuel then and now. However, at the season opening Test Days at Daytona just about everyone began having issues with clogged fuel filters and injectors. It ate not only the inside of the stainless steel aeroquip lines (rubber) it also ate the fuel cell foam. Thats when fuel cell foam went from a blue color to a yellow color and we all began using PTFE lined S.S. braided fuel lines throughout the system.
     
  23. airdelroy

    airdelroy Formula Junior

    May 10, 2007
    418
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Aaron Richardson
    So, is this problem caused by water getting into the fuel?

    I see that aircraft and boats do not like ethanol mixed gas at all. I also see alot of people online claiming that ethanol in gas is perfectly fine. Claiming that they have been running ethanol mixed fuel in older cars for years without any issues.

    Although I would think that any car would have some condensation inside the gas tank and cause the issues that are starting to show up.

    Perhaps we should start removing the ethanol from the gas? Seems like a pain, but not too difficult to do.

    Aaron
     
  24. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,747
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
    Full Name:
    Angus Podgorney
    This issue is starting to cause widespread problems in some cars. Wife has a Jag XJ, and it has a huge stumble constantly, dies, and throws CEL. Went into limp mode once. Dealer has a bunch of the cars and Jaguar has no fix, hasn't really acknowledged the problem.
    Car due to be traded soon, but nothing helping.
    David, have you seen issues with current production cars yet?
     

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