Ethanol in fuel

I'm not the expert on the stuff but what you are showing might be an option, Dave would be the best judge of that. I am guessing he is aware of it though.
I am steering clear of the cloth braid hose because one cannot see the condition of the underlying hose.
Good at 700 degrees for one hour.
The silicone/cloth covered stuff, not so durable, but it may be a good alternative for vintage applications where the hose is exposed.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

What should be done about this if fuel has been sitting in the tank over a year (more like two). Just drain the tank and hope everything that wasn't soluble came out? Does a vehicle with an in tank fuel pump need to be removed and cleaned?

 

I know here in CA the state is at 7% and by Feb 2010 it's supposed to go up to 10%.

I've recently had a slew of problems with the fuel systems on the daily drivers, both mid 90's cars. bmw & mercedes. the bmw had leaking and split supply hose to the polymede rigid line and roughly about a 1/2 gallon of water in the tank. I had to drain and flush the tank, rebuild the pump only because I'm not paying $400! for a new one, this one had seized from gunk and rust, a thorough going over fixed it.
The water concerned me as it's the first time I've experienced it this bad, then again I'm right on the coast now so humidity is a factor.
The merc is the older CIS and it's now showing problems with corrosion.

I think the fuel here in socal is worse than up north.

 

Drain it and burn it. Hopefully most of the gunk will come out with it.
There is another thread on Fchat dealing with disintegrating rubber gaskets on an in-tank pump, plugged the strainer etc............ugly, messy.

 

If you plan on storing the car with that fuel in it talk with the people who store their cars long term and I think there is a fuel stabilizer for that sorte of stuff. As for running it I think E85 is awesome if you tune it proper for the mgt system in the car, one of my high comp non turbo motors would always have a prob running 91 and I did the E85 / 91 mix and runs really nice.

Over time I think a lot of fuel system corrosion have been caused by MTBE or something that was added in the fuel a while back that is now banned but as you mentioned E85 and other Ethanol blends have been added to knock up the octane ratings.


If any one wants to try E85 straight (.25%) of the tank and add 91/94 to the rest of it you will notice a nicer burn. *WARNING* do your research before using this.

 

I always add StaBil to the gas I put in my collector cars because I don't know how long it will take to use up the gas I am putting in.

Hopefully it will keep the ethanol and gasoline in solution

I seem to recall that one ADVANTAGE of alcohol in the fuel is that water is soluble in it so the risk of water coming out of solution should be decreased.

 

a snipit from this page:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Developments+in+fuel+hoses+to+meet+changing+environmental+needs....-a014955386

 

the article continues and mentions parker-hannifn (parflex 80) hose. I've contacted them about the hose, expensive doesn't even come close to describing the cost differential from the others. Goodrich also has a great PTFE hose but at $15 a ft not price effective, not to mention the avg $25 per fitting. still cheaper than parflex.

I see this as the best option now, BMW has been doing this since the 90's. which is what made this last repair job a bit easier.

 

something else to think about

of course now the problem is that distributors don't want to carry low volume fuel so the airports are having a hard time getting neat gasoline. and the refineries are dropping the stock grade to 89 suboctane blend due to the alcohols increase on AKI.

what makes me scratch my head is that the blended fuels cut MPG efficiency and thus makes it harder to meet the EIAS 2007 requirements.

I run VP race fuel in the ferrari at this point.

 

Time to start thinking Tesla guys ...

 

Bite your tongue!

Ciao,
George

 

On a serious note. I had Gates fuel lines, about 3 or 4 just split like one would squeeze open a grape [if that makes any sense] after 1 year of use. These lines caused the garage to smell like an open gas can. Now I replace all my lines with fuel injection hose. So far, so good!

Ciao,
George

 

This video should contain a warning for Ferrari lovers. I think I died a little watching that

 

I am hearing that it doesn't prevent separation as long or as well but I use it anyway.
Shorten periods between refueling.

 

Sounds like we should drive the cars till their empty and then blow the lines/carbs etc. clear?
I mean it's not practical and come winter my cars don't move for many months.
I guess I could fill the race car with race gas but what a lot of trouble ...

Bob S.

 

Do Not store the cars with the fuel system dry. Far better to leave the system wet from what our testing has shown.

 

From the research I've done on ethanol, the main issue is that it absorbes moisture.
Hence the corrosion problems in fuel tanks and lines etc that I have seen particularly in older cars.

Manufacturers are now making the fuel system resistant to this and therefore can run on ethanol.

Interesting is the fact that although the octane rating of ethanol is around 95 it actually has a lower energy rating than regular unleaded 91 therefore producing less power and being less fuel efficient. Works out that it is actually more expesive to run than regular unleaded.

In terms of damaging engine internals, the octane rating is the important figure. If your car can run happily on regular 91 without detonation than ethanol 95 octane will be ok provided your fuel system can take it as mentioned above. But seeing as though it does not perform as well as regular 91 it would have to be the only option available for one to use it.

Difaz

 

Trust me, even though I consider myself an environmentalist, I am not sure the ethanol is good for the environment but mixed with gas it becomes a cocktail I am not happy with, but we have no other option. In our country the corporations run everything so what ever they tell the lawmakers to pass we have to use. If there was a choice i would use anything else....... I assume it has to do with ADM and using corn to make the ethanol... follow the money?

My brother in law is a rag racer and uses pure ethanol and says it is great, it is only when it is mixed with gasoline and the other additives such as benzine to hold it in solution that it starts to destroy parts, at least that is what he said, since I am an ex musician and shade tree mechanic i'm just glad there are people like Dave out there trying to get the safest best alternative to the run of the mill crap...

 

Has anyone used this alcohol free fuel for storage?

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/sef-94.html?lnum=16768617

Any idea on cost per gallon, as I can't find it locally.

 

I can guarantee you that it isn't any better for the environment than regular old oil based gas. The claim that it is "oxygenated" is such a load of crap, but the general public is technologically illiterate, they don't know any better. The oxygen in the alcohol isn't as O2 like in our atmosphere where it is needed to sustain combustion; it is simply in a different form that doesn't sustain combustion.

The use of the alcohol was originally done to shore up corn prices and help out farmers. We now have ethanol plants supported by government gas requirments. Why hasn't the 85% ethanol taken off as a gas substitute? Because it contains so much lower energy, that cost performance is poor compared to regular gas AND the emissions from cars aren't any better. It is however a "feel good" approach to being "green". Sheesh, like oil isn't a natural product. It comes out of the ground and we didn't make it!!

 

You can thank ADM and their ilk. It is about money, lobbying, and corn belt Senators. Environmentalisim is not part of the equation.

 

I hope Rob meant "drag racer".

Exactly... and some times you can turn the tables on them. My bud Dave ***** (no not Helms) builds "oh my gawd" street camaros with big block merlins and 14-71 blowers with nitro valves running straight alcohol sparked by mags. The state requires that he put $18 worth of stickers on them showing they ONLY can be run on alcohol. Yep, then they are registered as "alternative fuel" vehicles and the Greenies are all happy - they stand and clap their hands - they have a convert- a SMOG exempt convert... Course stand behind one of these things when lit for more than 5 seconds and the fumes will kill make your eyes and lungs burn, your skin stings, your teeth itch... but hey, it's clean, you don't see any fumes so the CARB folks are sooooo happy.

Environmentalism is not part of the equation.

Rick

 

All interesting. Alcohol was used as a gas dryer for years, precisely because it did absorb water. C2 Corvettes used to condense large quantities of water in their gas tanks, and a bottle of alcohol dryer was used to clean it out. Better than trying to siphon it out, both of which I have tried. All alcohol contains water, so oxidation would always be a problem. Hard to get it much purer than 95%.

The Germans used alcohol as an octane booster in WW-I because it allowed higher compression ratios than pure gasoline. It caused carburetor icing problems at altitude, though, because of the water content. It also increased fuel consumption by as much as 35%, as mentioned earlier. The aromatic benzol proved to be the final solution, boosting octane and allowing compression ratios as high as 6.5:1 in their over-compressed aero engines like the BMW IIIa. Nasty by-products, though, but nobody cared in 1918.

Some things never change. Wonder if it ate their pretty much pure rubber fuel system seals and hoses, as well?

If you have a large SUV getting 12 mpg around town, switching to E85 would probably bring down the mileage to 8-9 mpg. Anybody getting a 35% price break on E85 to make up for that?

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Just one of many of the dirty little secrets the politicians never get around to bringing up when those midwestern Senators tell us how grand it will all be when we are burning "Merican" alky instead of terrorist gasoline. Just think, when we are turning enough food into fuel to cause food shortages, fuel will be cheaper!!!


Right, that will happen the same year we get smaller, more efficient government that puts the interests of the country ahead of their own.

 

Exactly correct!

Ciao,
George