Ethanol in gasoline.....a scam or benificial ?

It's a farse. There's a discussion in the Texas forum about ethanol.

While I'm not very knowledgable, I've heard negative things for years of it being the reason parts are failing faster than they should.

My thing is, if it wasn't cause for concern, why would we see the "May contain up to 10% ethanol" stickers at every gas pump?

 

Ethanol in gasoline is corporate welfare for ADM, et al., and pork for farm states. Nothing more.

 

You can't buy gas without ethanol anywhere in my local market. Haven't been able to for many years, since at least 1995 when the EPA started the requirement for reformulated gasoline to combat ground-level ozone. This was long before anyone ever came up with the climate change stories.

 

Especially corn based ethanol. It does zero for reducing dependance on fossil fuels or imported oil. And no scientist I've heard from thinks corn based ethanol is a good thing. Corporate farmers love it, Mid West politicians love it, and that should tell you all you need to know.

Now, whether ethanol from other sources (such as sugar cane, or from possible future sources either in the works or yet to be discovered) is a good thing or not I'm unclear.

As per why there are stickers on pumps telling you its there, is there something wrong or sinister about being informed about what you are buying? Disclosure and information is a good thing.

 

The stickers are a legal requirement, telling you what it is you're buying. Same with many other things ... food for instance.

I've driven on gas containing ethanol since 1997. Never had a single issue traceable to the ethanol. (None of the cars broke down, even with 180K miles). I think the anti-ethanol sentiment is fueled (pun intended) by a nice mix of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, with random other miscellany mixed in.

 

Ethanol *does* have a very high octane rating, 113

It also does have a lower energy density (about 2/3 of that of gasoline)

So IF you're driving a car that can't take advantage of the higher octane rating of, say, E-85 (Octane 105ish) then you will burn more volume of fuel for a given distance.

HOWEVER, turbocharged cars in particular, can take advantage of this higher octane rating by running higher boost and thus at higher mechanical efficiency, getting better mileage on E-85 than a naturally aspirated car will.

The whole Ethanol debacle is caused by three factors:
a) Subsidies
b) FUD
c) People who insist on getting (and giving) simple answers to complex questions.

 

The irony, of course, is that the highest ethanol percentage requirements for pumping stations tend to be in towns where the traffic patterns are so mismanaged that you hardly ever get the turbo spooled up.

(My (twin scroll turbo) EVO is getting *half* the gas mileage on NoVA's 10% ethanol that it got on MA's 0%. ...
... But that's because most of my commute in the DC area is spent sitting at traffic lights.)

 

In my daily driver Toyota FJ Cruiser, I compute my mileage with every fill up. I get 16-17 miles per gallon with gas containing ethanol, and 19-20 with pure gasoline. This equates to 250 or so miles between fill-ups with ethanol and 300 or so with normal gas.

One of the biggest dangers is ethanols tendancy to absorb moisture from the atmosphere, which if allowed to sit for a length of time will phase separate so you end up with a layer of water/ethanol mix below your now much lower octane gasoline. It can be a real problem in applications where fuel sits for a long time, like boats, equipment engines, and collector cars that are allowed to sit.

 

Ethanol has screwed up the fiberglass tank on my bike, as well as the carbs. If there was a way to get rid of it, I would be a much happier person.

 

Fractional Distilation. {not for the faint of heart}

 

I brought this topic up about 6 weeks ago or so (not about it being a scam, but about ethanol being detrimental to Ferrari engines), and David Helms (among others) mentioned that ethanol eats away at rubber parts over time etc....have a look here

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268213&highlight=ethanol

 

I think the good thing here is as the schemes get debunked people are starting to question and look a little harder at some other lines we've been forced to believe. Ethanol is one of those "green" costly programs that is passed along to the consumer. The energy to produce far outweighs benefits.

 

LOL

I was hoping for a political solution, rather than a ChemE one.

 

Agree 100%, well said.

 

Want to know what it can do to an F-Car?


Run a search for "DaveHelms" and "ethanol" here.

His documented research will scare the crap outta ya. And it should.

 

I can tell you that I have noticed I have to throw out gas after 6 months or so or it will kill any 2-cycle motor I have. So I now believe the water separation thing. Makes sense to me.

I try not to let fuel sit in my cars for any significant amount of time. I may start buying fuel at the track more. It's the only stuff around that is no ethanol.

I would pay more to not have it in there.

 

From an energy efficiency standpoint, it's in the red. It costs more BTUs to make it than it produces. Thermodynamics still holds true.

Was this the ethanol/davehelms thread you were speaking of?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23286&highlight=ethanol

 

answer to thread premise:

Scam

no other discussion

 

Do it at home in the garage, right?


I have a cousin who used to work for the corn industry. He drove a company car with a giant ear of corn painted on it. He tried to tell me the benefits of corn-based fuels. It's a loser in many ways.

 

Ethanol in gasoline is a massive waste of money (very costly to produce and drives up the price of corn/grain). Thank the corn lobbyists for ripping us off and our idiotic government for allowing it to happen.

 

Like I said earlier ... driven on E-10 since 1997. Haven't had a single problem caused by it. It is easy to make a car that won't suffer ill effects from mixing in ethanol. Look at Brazil! They've driven on ethanol for decades!

A lot of people argue that the E-blending is only political. Gee, I wonder if a lot of the FUD might have a teensy amount of politicizing behind it too. Hmm?

 

Here's a thread in the Texas section you might want to read.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261660

 

Let's see...

They put in 10% ethanol, you get 10% worse gas mileage, (not a good start there) AND it costs more fuel to produce the ethanol than the 10% it replaces in the gasoline mix! It's a double WASTE...& I hear it isn't too good for the car engine.

You just KNOW government morons came up or bought into this stupidity.