Ethiopian 737-8 MAX down. No survivors.

I hate the news. Ridiculous headline.

 

????????? 777X was launched a long time ago. Parts are already be fabricated.

 

More and more witnesses (who live under a commonly used flight path) who were outside on a clear day report the plain trailing smoke and debris before crashing. Yes, witnesses are notoriously unreliable, but when there are more than just one or two reporting smoke and debris...

 

They are delaying the ceremony. In light of the accident I think it makes sense.

 

To me, that would indicate the altitude excursions were due to a very distracted crew dealing with something not related to the sensor issue of the Lion Air crash.

 

This is why I hate the news media. They jump to conclusions and then instead of being neutral on the issue giving both sides, they create panic.

There is no evidence linking these two events together. There has been no investigation. Instead its "who is still flying this plane?" and "this is a disaster for Boeing!" and "panicked flyers trying to rebook!"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/03/11/boeing-737-max-8-ethiopian-airlines-lion-air-southwest-american-travelers-panic/3127692002/

 

Well the odds of dying in a 737Max did double in the last 24 hrs, so ...............

 

No, there are differences in the systems. But the system you were describing known as “speed trim” is in the 7 and 8s as well.
The difference is in how the airplanes react during a stall situation.
The Max has speed trim as well but also has the “maneuver characteristics augmentation system” which commands nose down elevator at high angles of attack. The 7 and 8 NG’s do not have that system. They will continue to use speed trim in that scenario.

 

It gets worse: social media idiots/*******s posting old Bagram videos purporting to be Ethiopia.....social media going to be our "barbarians using the Roman roads to invade Rome" event......

 

I am interested in learning more about the opinion previously posted here. Something along the lines of Boeing having to relocate the engines a little more forward than in previous models, and maybe a little higher too, relative to the plane' s centerline.
Does anyone have information to allow us to compare? maybe two superimposed drawings of the Max 8 and previous 737 models so we can see the relative position and compare trust centerline and drag centerline? I'm not trying to second guess Boeing's engineering Dept obviously but it would be nice to know.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-10/it-begins-china-orders-carriers-ground-boeing-737s-after-ethiopian-airlines-crash

It Begins: China Orders Carriers To Ground Boeing 737s After Ethiopian Airlines Crash


China has ordered all domestic carriers to ground their Boeing 737 MAX 8s after one of the jets seemingly dropped from the sky southeast of Addis Ababa just six minutes after taking off on Sunday. That accident - which killed all 157 people on board - was the second involving one of the jets in five months, and has led to speculation that Boeing might order all of the jets to be grounded pending further inspection.

Chinese media outlet Caijing was the first to report the decision, citing sources within China's domestic airline industry. Thee 737 MAX, the fourth generation of Boeing's narrow-body 737 line, was first flown in 2016, making the string of crashes - two in five months - unprecedented and, according to some analysts, extremely suspect.

 

Is the 737 Max series kind of redundant when looking back at the discontinued 757? It seems they are trying to reinvent the wheel with a long/stretched narrow body with good range except they are forcing the 737 with its stubby body and short landing gear to have the same capability. What is so much different other than just newer more efficient mechanical and electronics? I still miss the 757 if you can't tell...beautiful plane.

 

MCAS software updates across the Max fleet will be coming in the next few weeks. Announced today by Boeing: https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-releases-statements?item=130402

 

Chinese move is mostly political. They would love to force all Chinese carriers to use inferior Chinese equipment.

 

My mistake for the wording. As you correctly stated the plane was "launched" years ago. The event I was referring to is/was the "rollout" ceremony.

Most recent word on that ceremony per Boeing:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Here was their statement last week originally announcing March 13th would be the big day:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

F/O 200 hrs..doesn't help when it hits the fan.

 

So the foreign carriers (mostly 2nd World countries, for what its worth) have grounded the airplane but North American carriers have not.

What is that about? Is that a sign of the foreign carriers not having confidence in their training so they want to cover their butts? Is it just a cultural knee jerk reaction? There haven't been any instances of problems with North American carriers, they seem to be able to fly the plane just fine.

The difference in reaction is interesting.

-F

 

Thing is, if it is MCAS related, the procedure to rectify the situation is pretty simple, disengage the MCAS, re-establish control of the pitch trim. So even 200 hours of flight time should be sufficient.

That then leads to a question of training.

-F

 

The #1 rule prevails, i.e. 'follow the money'. Have you ever considered why, when the FAA is considering Airworthiness Directives and how onerous the required corrective action may be, that the FAA evaluates the economic impact. Thus they may delay, or stretch out, implementation of corrective action based on the economic impact to the operator. Safety first

 

That's hard to say. The crew would have to immediately identify if it was MCAS and then do whatever procedure they are to do right after. Sounds simple in hindsight, which is always 20/20.

A FO with 200 hours under the belt may not be as confident in such a situation and lose focus on what to do. Or they could have gone by the book and gone down a checklist and they simply ran out of time before getting to the solution...

Experience is very important in all career fields and not just being a pilot no matter how much you memorize a book for that particular job.

 

Control systems for the elevators run through the main deck floor. Obviously loss of pitch control was evident. While the systems run in pairs and are redundant each pair is individually within the impact cone for engine blade loss. Of course the redundant pair should maintain control. Another possibility is explosive damage in the cargo compartment, thereby impacting the systems in the floor above. Either situation would account for smoke and debris trailing from the aircraft.

 

Hello I believe that Boeing has a assembly plant in China for the 737 Max, heard on the news tonight, maybe there using China parts, not sure.

 

Affirmative, they do. But the Chinese government would rather have their airlines buy Chinese designed airliners now that they have fielded some that could be considered competitors. Really competitors only in China, though. This is one case where the Chinese blackmail for technology rights did not work.

 

MCAS is only activated during manual flight .So you have a pilot trying to correct the flight path manually, and possibly MCAS nudging it down for five seconds ..then a pause ..then starts again for another 5 secs. All the while with most likely lots of aural /visual alarms also going off.Memory items then check lists etc. Ohh and by the way don't forget that some very important switches work in the opposite way to all the others up/down etc .

Loss of control accidents are still happening.Pilots in most airlines worldwide are totally out of practice flying their machines manually,except for a few minutes every 6 months in the sim,plus a couple of minutes during T/O and landing.

 

FAA says plane is still safe to fly, but the real expert, Diane Feinstein, says no.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-11/faa-says-boeing-737-max-remains-airworthy-despite-latest-crash