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Euro Exhaust on 83 US 308QV?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Harta320, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Planning on replacing my stock exhaust on an 83 308 gtsi. Starting to come apart and is whistling beyond belief. Annoying as hell. I have patched the whistling problem with inserts in the exshaust tips but figure I might as well just replace. I am leaning towards the ANSA since the Tubi just seems a little to exspensive and I am not really wanting the car to be the loudest thing on the road. The questions I have..

    1. Will the euro exhaust unit from Asna fit (any other manufacture) the US version with the cats removed? Looks like it will bolt staight up to the exhaust manifolds with the cats removed. I have read a bunch of old threads but nothing has specifically stated that it would work or not work. I can not tell if the exhaust manifold are different from one version to the next. For those of you who may ask about emissions: Emissions is not a factor. Most of the emissions has already been removed and only the cats remain.

    2. I would also like to change the rear of the car to resemble the Euro 308 (remove the diaper or what everthat thing is called). I already have the Euro front and rear bumpers and really like the clean look of the Euro rear end. I have seen Newmans conversion (great by the way) but a little impractical at this point. So is there a piece available that will fill the gap just above the exhaust so I can get the Euro look without going to extremes and if so where might I find this peice?

    Thanks
    Bill
     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 BigTex, Apr 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm building a replacement to mine. Looks like this:

    Not going too smoothly though, the shop lost the example, and we are waiting on a mill run of the perf metal pattern required!

    Actually I've been told this is US part only, the euro just left it off!
    It is cooler than the big slotted daiper though.
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  4. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
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    Bill Smith
    Hey thanks Speedy! This peice I am looking for is the one directly above the Muffler with the slot in it. I plan on getting rid of the diaper thing all together. Do you have any idea if the euro muffler will fit with the cats removed?
     
  5. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #4 jwise, Apr 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I would look at the parts section at Ferrari UK for diagrams of both US and Euro pipes. If the numbers are the same for the pipes- it would bolt on.

    My car is a euro 308 QV and the exhaust is quite different than the US examples i have seen. The flanges on my muffler are in line with the rear axle, but I think the US mufflers (even without cats) seem to have a different connection angle.

    here is a photo of the weird custom system out of my car- so you can compare to your US car concerning flanges.
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  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Just call Ansa US. They'll know which one you need.
     
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  8. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Hey speedy and Jwise. I know I can get a US version and test pipes that will work but I would have to still use the diaper thing I think because the muffler would extend out past the bumper instead of being tucked up under like the Euro version. It looks to me like the Euro muffler is set back a couple of inches. Takes up the space where the cats would normaly go some where between 6 to 8 inches if I where to guess and then the exhaust tips extend farther out to clear the bumber if you look at the Euro muffler on the ANSA web sight compared to the US version. Plus I would not have to buy test pipes. It may not work nearly as easy as I think but thought maybe some one on here may have done this. I have read a few threads that touches on the subject but cannot seem to find anything where someone has done this. I bet Newman would know! Thanks guys and keepo it coming. We will get this figured out I am sure. Maybe more trouble than it is worth but what the hay!!

    Bill
     
  9. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Consider a Stebro -- about half the price of Tubi, with similar great sound and performance and light weight... just not highly polished except for the tips. I love mine. They also now give a 10% discount to FCA members.
     
  10. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Thanks Mcharness! I was thinking of Stebro as another alternative but did not see a 308 listed on there sight. I will look again. Do you have any idea if a Euro muffler will bolt straight up to the US manifold exhaust? I relize that hanging the muffler I will have to fabricate something.

    I really like the mods you have made to your car and that is on my growing list of things to do. LOL Very long list I might add. Fix 3 things and add 10 things I want to do next. LOL If I was only a drug dealer so I could afford this sicness I would be in good shape. I still have the address of the shop that did the mods to your side window covers. How much and how long did it take if you do not mind me asking? I am thinking of giving them a call later this week and sending them off.

    Thanks
    Bill
     
  11. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    #9 cavallo_nero, Apr 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i had a custom set of magnaflows for my euro 308 made. they woke up the car, but there was no room for mufflers and cats, so i had a duplicate setup made with cats for e-test. but now my car is 25 years old, and in colo, i no longer need a e-test. i had to cut a semicircle out of the fiberglass valence in the rear to accomodate the other tailpipe. but here is a good shot of the valence anyway.
    john 78 308 gts euro with gobs of mods.
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  13. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
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    Bill Smith
    Well, I just said to hell with it and called T-Rutlands. They say that the exhaust manifolds on the euro version are different than the US and I would have to do some exspensive mods to the car. Much like what Newman is doing to his car. Can't go that route any time soon since I plan on driving my car. Maybe next year. Thanks guys!
     
  14. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Cavallo, I have seen the system you have and it looks great. I could go that route but then I am still stuck with the US version Diaper wraped around that muffler system. I was hoping I could some how buy or make a mod that would simulate the Euro tail end. You can see from your pic how the mufflers are tucked up under the trunk. On my US version the muffler sticks out the back about 3 to 4 inches and then you need that diaper thing for it not to look like something is missing. Then there is that space just above the muffler tips that needs to be filled on the US version. I live in FL so emissions are not a factor.
     
  15. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    I have an US GTSi and also wanted to get rid of the "diaper". Testpipes were already on the car and I cut and rewelded the exhaust and the U-bend to be able to move the exhaust far enough forward.
    Also I bought a 328 original euro exhaust cheap on ebay, and I made that work by completely cuttting of the entrance pipes and fabricate new pipes, eliminating the testpipes. Either way, some welding has to be done because a euro 308 exhaust also will not fit. Picture of the forward moved original exhaust:
    http://home.tiscali.nl/308gto/062.jpg.htm
    and the euro 328 exhaust, modified to fit straight on the us headers:
    http://home.tiscali.nl/308gto/136.jpg.htm (more pics if you click "next")
     
  16. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    For the US 308QV like ours, it's the same configuration as the US 328 (identical). We can't just bolt on a euro version, even if you remove your cat. You can see the 328/308QV version at
    http://www.stebro.net/fr308.htm

    Dan Petschenig at Stebro is the guy to talk to about details. He's also the guy who can give you the 10% FCA (Ferrari Club of America) member discount.

    They had them for about 3 weeks, I think, but they were doing the targa at the same time. We traded services for the work (I created their www.corlettauto.com website -- note the 308 in their logo!) so I don't know how much it would cost. However, they have done similar work for other F-car owners who liked my mods.

    Mike C.
     
  17. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Well, the plot thickens!!

    Newman just sent me an email and he thinks the Euro exhuast will fit. He said that his car had cats that where removed by the previous owner and then all he did was bolt on a Euro exhaust and then made a piece to fit just above the muffler to connect the 2 side boxes. His car is older but I have looked at the schematics and it certainly seems like if I remove all of the cat plumbing it should bolt right up to the exhaust manifold.

    Mcharness: My exhaust is different than the 328. I have 2 inlets to my muffler connected to 2 cats. Look at the exhaust on the Stebro sight of the 308 just above the 328 pic and that is what I have. I do have an 83 QV so I think that may be the difference. Paul, The guy I talked to at Ansa seems to think it will work also.

    Bert308 (My hero!!) LOL

    Love your car by the way. Hope to some day make enough money so I can get Norwood to furnish me a gto kit or I'll have to learn to fabricate one myself like you did. LOL Did the 328 exhaust have 2 inlets or one? US 328 have 1 inlet and I have 2. If you look at the parts manual of the 308 exhaust with the cats in place you can see that there is 2 cats and 2 inlets to the exhaust with a bunch of small curve tubing to connect it all together. There is a pic of the Asna Euro exhuast on this sight somewhere with one long pipe that connects to the front bank and than a short pipe that connect to the rear bank. Just looking at the exhaust in the parts manual and the pic of the Ansa exhaust you can see that the plumbing looks the same except for the fact that the cats are gone. The exhaust manifolds could be slightly different, Hell if I know but that is what I am trying to find out. If I knew how to cut and paste pics I think I could explain this thing a little better.

    Thanks for all the info guys!!

    Bill
     
  18. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
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    Bill Smith
    #15 Harta320, Apr 8, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I found the pic of the of the Ansa Euro exhaust so hopefully this helps explain things a little better. As you can see from the pic the Euro muffler tubes replace all of the small tubes that connect the cats to the exhaust manifold and then on to the muffler. If you look at the parts manual there is about 6 pieces of tubes bent all over the place so everything fits(Like my car). The Euro muffler eliminates all of these pieces and would blot right up to the exsisting exhaust manifold. The muffler certainly will sit back farther,most likely where the cats are now. The thing I am trying to figure out is if the tubes on the Euro muffler are long enough and if the flanges will bolt straight up. Looks to me like they would but there could be different exhaust manifolds on the Euro cars and US cars so I may have to modify the flanges worst case senerio from what I am can tell.
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  19. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    It had 2, but they were side mounted, not on the front. I think whatever exhaust you choose, it is always possible to hang it in there, buy some 90 degree bends and pipes, and cut&connect all.
     
  20. fivebob

    fivebob Karting

    Jan 31, 2004
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    Callum
    Here are some photos of the exhaust off my '83 euro 308-QV which the previous owner replaced with a nice lightweight Titanium item. Dimensions are approx centre to centre of the outer bolt hole (42 & 7/8") and the inlet pipes(39 & 3/8")
     
  21. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Hey fivebob-
    Myself, and others, sure would like to see a photo of the titanium unit mounted on your car. Do you have a photo of it?
    Thanks,
    John
     
  22. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Bill,

    I have a 1976 Fiberglass GTB. The rear valance (part #60212107 and molding, part #60246907, available at Ferrari U.K. through the Ferrari Owners' site) and my ca 1982 Euro ANSA muffler are pictured below. The ANSA system I have is the same as you pictured in your post this A.M. I had to modify my muffler somewhat to lower the tailpipes and allow them to clear the lower edge of the valance.

    Alan has an early 1977 steel GTB with the same valance and the transitional shield as he has pictured.

    For your QV, the current production ANSA system is Euro only. You'll need the European rear valance that Paul Newman installed and as Peter posted. The cutout will clear the tailpipes.
     
  23. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    Me too, never heard about a titanium exhaust. Must be very expensive, all that to save some weight?
     
  24. fivebob

    fivebob Karting

    Jan 31, 2004
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    Not sure about the brand of this one, seems to have been made in Japan, looks like the previous owner didn't have it on for long before he crashed the car, hmmm maybe the mechanic took it for a test drive and oops :(

    Anyway here's a pic of the system, sorry it doesn't show much of the car as it's being stripped for restoration right now and looks a mess.
     
  25. Harta320

    Harta320 Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    169
    Sarasota, FL
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    Bill Smith
    Ok I think I see the problem. The pic I posted of the Ansa muffler I thought was a Euro muffler. IS it not because that is what I think will work? Thanks Bert308 and fivebob for the pic. I have never seen that muffler before and you guys are correct it would not work without serious modification. Now I see what you guys where talking about.

    308 gtb, You have the set up I am looking for and seem to have made it work. Where the modifications that difficult. I figured that the exhaust tips might be a little to high but nothing that could not be worked around. I plan on just fabricating a piece that fits between the 2 lower boxes rather than go Newmans route. He seemed to think it would work just fine. Anyway thanks guys for all the help. I still have no idea what direction I will choose but now that the ti muffler is out who knows...

    Bill
     
  26. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Yes, the '84 (mine) and '85 QVs have single-cat setup like the 328. I didn't realize that the '83QV was different.
     
  27. fivebob

    fivebob Karting

    Jan 31, 2004
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    Callum
    More pics of the ti exhaust system can be found at;
    http://www.heat-magic.co.jp/ferrari_308.htm

    Hmmm, it appears to be my car in the photos (in much more pristine condition), amazing what you can find on the net when you look :D
     

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