Euro Vs. US 360?

you can not get recalls done on euro cars. you have to pay out of pocket.
euro cars lack approx 212 mechanical parts verse usa models.

 

i saw a 2000 red/tan modena for sale with 4 K miles, just had belt service, price of car was 109 K. thats frigin cheap !!!!! also had F 1. i called and aked the dealer if it was a euro---- absolutley !!!! they never advertised that part and the dealer had no clue about recalls being out of pocket expense.
i personally will only buy US version cars, never euro.

 

I would think that it would be better to have less parts, less to go wrong. Euros are better cars. Same manufacturer, just purer. Car isn't under warrenty anyway. Good luck.

 

I have heard that some F dealers won't take them in for trade...down the road.

What kind of price differences are you seeing?

 

Last I heard, authorized dealers were forbidden from selling grey market cars. There can also be problems getting european market only parts. There are some who swear by them (look at older euro 308's, many consider them more desirable) and many who swear at them, it's primarily market perception, and personal opinion, I think anyone would have a hard time making a non-subjective case for either.

 

Where does this info on the 212 parts come from?
I have a euro car and have struggled to find the differences in, under or otherwise. I know the bumpers are different and there are no precats(yea!) but would like to see the list of 212 parts and how they are different.

Christopher, If you can find the same car in a euro for 20k less you would be a wise to take it. I do not think the spread is anywhere close to that, esp. as the cars get older. Once they are out of warranty, its all out of pocket anyway. And it is not true that dealers will not work on them, at least in my experience. But if you have good independant shops available, why go to the dealer after warranties are over anyway? I am very happy owning a euro, having considerably less weight and less money invested. Just one guys opinion and experience.

 

IIRC that was the number of part numbers used by Ferrari when challenging the legal importation of grey market cars. Importers had always maintained that the cars were brought to US spec, but since FNA didn't want the cars allowed in, in their petition to either DOT or EPA they cited 212 or so part numbers that were different from both markets and noted that these importers had not bought the parts from them. That is, in my understanding, why there are no Euro Enzos, no Euro Stradales, etc in the country (excepting Stefans )

Don't get me wrong, it's imho a bulls**t claim and just a technicality for FNA to successfully petition to remove Euro cars from the market (ironically, the shift of the Euro and Dollar exchange did a good enough job of that). Personally, I have no problem with Euro cars, I think they are a good deal, although the 'lighter' aspect is not as pronounced as it used to be, I think the US specs for impacts and Euro specs are pretty similar so you end up with the intrusion beams, heavier bumpers, etc anyway, mostly just air pump and secondary cats/O2 sensors as I understand the 'significant' differences to be.

 

John that would not surprise me. Taking many of the access panels off yours exposes equipment bays that have in some cases considerably less equipment, primarily electrical in nature.

I also know from experience on your car that the bumpers are considerably lighter and have fewer parts and components attaching them. The bumper weight is particularly important from a performance standpoint due to the fact that it is at the extreme ends of the car.

We also found if I recall that your car is 200 lbs lighter? Weight had to come from somewhere.

Also due to the drastically reduced sensitivity of the engine management systems monitoring of system parameters considerably more latitude exists for "tuning" without the troublesome ck engine lights getting in the way.

 

Personally speaking I would think that figure 212 parts being different between US and Euro cars is a lot of horsesh** dreamed up by dealers to scare people from buying Euro.

Your emissions systems were always a little different, and your rear light lenses are also different, especially where you use red indicator lenses instead of amber, as we have over on this side of the big pond.

It applied more so to other makes and types, where bumpers were bigger and you had that third brakes light on the trunk etc., etc.,

212 is a lot of parts !!

 

Wow, 200lbs, I stand humbly corrected, I was not aware the weight savings were that significant!

 

Ahhh, the US vs. Euro issue again. The attractiveness of importing and federalizing a Euro car has greatly diminished given the movement of the $ against a Euro, however buying a Euro car that has been properly federalized has been - and is - an interesting proposition if you are looking for value.

In my (brief) review a while back, the difference between an early-year Euro vs. US 360 was about $10K-$15K, partially reflecting the Euro 'taint' and partially reflecting the hassles of getting warranty work done. Now that both cars are out of warranty (and have been for a while), it seems the difference has narrowed to <$10K.

The rumors of dealers not working on them are unfounded. Money is money, and as long as you're not asking for warranty work, they'll take your car in.

You obviously buy in at a lower level but will also exit at the same depressed valuations, so don't expect pricing arbitrage to magically appear here.

The psychological aspects of having a car that isn't as 'robust' as a US version is something only you can ascertain how comfortable you are about.

But if value is the primary driver in your purchase decision, then a Euro car represents an attractive buying opportunity IMHO, all else equal.

Best.

 

Why is a Euro car brought in? To save money? Doubt it..............

Because supply can't match demand. So some buyers will spend the $20k-$30k it's going to cost to ship, DOT / EPA reg. the car. Will the buyer get the money back? Nope...... Just the cost of getting what you want now. Is it worth as much as a US car? Not if a US car is still under warranty. But, once the warranty is over for that year, then I couldn't see one reason not to purchase a euro.

I have news for you.......... They are the same car

I'd love to find a good deal on any fcar. If people are freaked about it, then all the better for the savvy buyer.

 

I have a Euro 360 my business partner has a US model. my car has been a sweetheart, his has been a nightmare. all of the guys who tell you to dodge a euro don't own one. it's the same car.

the only reason to care is the warranty, if it's gone, then so is the premium.

 

Vik made some excellent points.

I'll add: I have a 2000 Euro 360 with 78k miles on it, and some light mods (timing advanced 2-deg, tubi w/ test pipes, etc.) It is faster than every single Challenge Stradale it has run into, and WAY faster than the regular 360s. It sounds better than any 360 I've ever run into. The motor is still running strong as can be, the handling is terrific, and the car is, basically, awesome.

It didn't have a warranty when I bought it, the VIN wasn't applicable for the Cam Variator recall, and otherwise, has been like any other 360 I've seen -- only it's faster and sounds better.

So, in short, if you find a good deal on a sound Euro, get it.

nlh

 

Vik, good points all, except the one about euro cars not being as robust. Maybe you meant it the other way around. As Noah and I can suggest, they are more robust in every performance category.

Brian, thanks for the filling in the details.
Must be getting near annaul service time, I'll call for a spring cleaning appt.!

 

Hi John. I should clarify. I didn't mean "robust" as it related to performance. I've driven Noah's car and it screams like a bat out of hell. I was more talking about the build. I assume that not all 212 parts that make a US car different from a Euro car are updated during the federalization process. The majority, likely. But perhaps not all. To me, the difference is largely a psychological one, which is what I noted earlier, but it may matter more to others.

Hope all is well.

 

Ah, keep in mind that the Euro Dollar exchange rate movement may have made Eurpean cars less of a bargain, but not Middle Eastern cars. All Gulf currencies are pegged to the dollar, so prices here are still the same in US Dollar terms.

I live in Kuwait, and last week I bought a 2004 360 Modena, 6-speed, in top condition for US$84k.

 

I had a euro '99 Modena 6 spd and I don't think I will go euro again. One issue being the car was not elligible for the cam variator recall. Also, the EPA work was done by one of the most reputable convertors on the east coast, but the work wasn't done well and all the air injector tubes started to crack. They warrantied the work but I had to ship the car back to them from Colorado at my expense, and when the car came back after many weeks of summer driving gone, it had no clutch left.
I had numerous problems with the car running like crap and had to constantly disconnect the battery to let the computer reset itself. The local mechanic couldn't figure that problem out in the two years I had the car. Also some of the throttle linkage was improperly installed and the local mechanic didn't ever notice that either. That was probably a problem created by the conversion shop, but regardless, it was an issue you wouldn't have with a US car. The local mechanic never noticed it so the car, even though it ran well at times, was compromised the entire time I owned it. All in all, kind of a pain in the a$$

 

Teak, you bring up an interesting point, and one that has been at the back of mind my as I revisit this issue. It is one to say, for example, a busted F1 box is not be covered under warranty and therefore is an out-of-pocket expense to the owner. It is slightly different to say that recalls per TSB's, such as the ever-important variator cams, are also not covered.

Is this true? If so, the downside of buying a Euro car is somewhat higher IMO. Again, with the passage of time, these issues may have already been caught by the prior owner, or be less pronounced (or absent) in later year cars that are federalized. But it does make me wonder.

 

Yes it is in the case of the cam variators. I could have gone to the trouble of getting the parts through an out of country dealer, but I decided the cam variators had a low enough incidence of failure that it wasn't worth it, even though their failure could be a very expensive problem. I don't know about safety related recalls though. I suppose if they had failing airbags or something they would want to replace them anywhere in the world, but who knows?

 

I am always amazed with the negativity of "euro" models when in fact all Ferrari's are "euro" models!

If the car is out of warranty, one would pay out of pocket for expenses. So, what difference does this make?

I think it's Ferrari's US distribution arm that wishes to reap the additional profit and produces the negative aspect.