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Evans Coolant??

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Napolis, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. alberto

    alberto Formula 3
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    Aug 25, 2001
    2,389
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    Alberto
    I too considered/wondered about using Evans coolant. One potential plus for me what their advertised anticorrosive feature. However, after thinking about it, much of the corrosion in the cooling system is due to dissimilar metals and electrolysis, not the water in the glycol/water mix. As a result, I'm not convinced that Evans helps in this regard. The other feature they advertise is that it does not build pressure in the system (supposedly you can/should use a zero pressure cap). I'm not convinced that's a good ideal as I assume (and I'm no expert) that the pressure build up assists in the circulation of the fluid (please correct me if I am mistaken).

    As a result I've passed, but I would love for them to perform some of the same real tests that Water Wetter has run and demonstrate the results. Their product is pretty expensive and if you blow an old engine because of it, it is going to be a VERY expensive experiment.
     
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  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    For corrosion to happen there needs to be electric conduction and evans coolant is pretty much non-conductive...at least until contaminates build up to change that, so it will reduce corrsion. The question is does it matter? Standard coolant contains corrosion preventatives that are pretty effective provided you change the coolant regulary so I don't know how much to are really gaining there.

    As for the presssure, no system pressure is require for circulation. A standard system requires pressure to increase the boiling point of the water in the system and prevent fluid loss to to evaporation (vapor pressure) but evans coolant has no such requirement due to it's low vapor pressure at operating temperature. So don't worry about the low pressure cap.
     
  4. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,496
    Frenchtown NJ
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    Wil de Groot
    Jim,

    I haven't done any real scientific testing with Evans Coolant but we've filled several cooling systems with it and I run it in my supercharged 308GTB with no problems. The car has a big aluminum radiator and an electric water pump which makes comparison difficult but I actually have difficulty with too much cooling rather than not enough. I drilled 2 small holes in the thermostat to have at least SOME circulation before the thermostat opens and it's apparently too much. I need to change the thermostat a third time with even smaller holes (or one hole).

    Even if your engine did run a little hotter it wouldn't really matter since Evans boils at around 380*F instead of around 240*F like standard coolant in a pressurized system. The higher boiling point is a great asset in summer traffic. If the coolant temp goes up to 300 *F it's no problem. No worries about steam pockets around the combustion chambers either since it's a waterless coolant.

    Another benefit of the higher boiling point is that you can run a coolant cap with a lower pressure rating which takes a lot of stress off of hoses and water pump seals.

    The main advantage though is that Evans Coolant is waterless, so zero corrosion. This fact not only protects iron and aluminum parts but magnesium parts almost make waterless coolant imperative. We had water based coolant and water wetter in a 206SP race car and it literally ate the magnesium water pump housing. We had to have a new front cover cast (and then did a lot of machining) for the engine since the WP is integral with the front cover. The aluminum impeller inside the pump was still OK.

    If viscosity is a concern, I believe Evans racing coolant is thinner but we've done just fine with the standard grade.

    FYI, I have no affiliation with Evans. I just like their product. If you want to read their propaganda, go to www.evanscooling.com.

    You have a beautiful car by the way. I fell in love with the Ferrari brand when I saw a 330 P3 on display at the NY International Car Show back in 1966. The show was in the Colosseum back then and I was only 16 but that car made a life long impression on me. I don't like the looks of the Enzo at all (it looks like 3 different designers had their hands in it's creation) and your re-body is so much more beautiful. The fact that the aerodynamic performance was improved in the process is a great plus.

    Wil
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Hey Will

    Thanks so much for your reply. In P 4/5 it seems to be working really well but we did notice higher oil temps which they warn of. We're looking into that and considering more oil cooler. (Oil stayed just below red line when run hard on a hot 105F day)

    On the MK-IV we're going to remove the AC system we installed 10 years ago which should help with air flow to radiator and see where we are.

    Best
     
  6. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    Wil de Groot
    Jim,

    You might want to think about an oil to "water" heat exchanger. I run one (a Setrab) in my hot rod 308. No worries about getting good air flow to it and the oil temp comes up much quicker in cool weather. As long as the oil temp hovers around 90*C you're fine and like I said before, I've had issues with too-low coolant temps rather than too high.

    On the 206SP, which has water-less coolant and no fans, coolant or oil temps have not been an issue either.

    Wil
     
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  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    The only way the oil temperature can go up when you change coolant is if the coolant isn't taking as much heat out of the engine. There is no other possibility that follows the law of thermodynamics and that is consistent with evans coolant's inferior thermodynamic properties. It sure sounds like the simplest way to solve the oil temperature problem in to drain the evans coolant and refill is a 70/30 blend of standard coolant and add water wetter or similar.

    On the Mk-IV, if you are running 50/50, got to 70/30, if you are at 70/30 then go to straight water. It also sounds like the fan requires attention. Look to see if the AC condenser sides are block air flow to part of the radiator too, often they aren't a good size match. Vintage air has a large selection of very free flowing condensers. Again, if the radiator is more than 6-8 years old or not aluminum I’d simply replace it as it won’t have nearly the effectiveness of a new one. Replacing a new brass radiator with a new aluminum radiator will gain you about 30% more cooling, replacing an old brass radiator with a new aluminum will gain you about 50% more cooling.
     
  9. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    I'm with ya' Mark. There may be good reasons to use Evans Coolant but increased heat transfer isn't one of them. The Laws of Physics are against it.
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    The entire AC system in the MK-IV isn't original and is something we engineered years ago. We're removing the entire system and putting it back as original which should improve the flow to the rad. The rad is alum and fine and without having a condensor blocking it should work much better.

    As for P 4/5 the Evans did give us lower water temps so the hot oil may simply be Very hard running on a very hot day. We'll do a service and see if the oil rad got blocked by sand. There's also a possibility that for track use we may need a bigger oil cooler. The oil never got into the red it just got close.
     
  11. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
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    Nov 19, 2003
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    The problem is: Whether the radiator on the Lola is aluminum or brass, if it's not new it may not be as efficient as it used to be. You mentioned possible dirt on the oil cooler but the same can happen to the radiator. Also, if anyone ever mixed regular tap water with the anti-freeze in the cooling system you will likely have some degree of calcification in there. Tap water has minerals in it and the radiator tubes get an insulating coating of calcium, etc on the insides over time. You may want to consider replacing or rebuilding the radiator.

    If you've ever lost or damaged an engine in that car, the oil cooler could be full of debris (metal bits blocking the cooling tubes).

    If there is no alternative to sandwiching the radiator, oil cooler and AC condenser you should also make sure that the oil cooler gets hit with cooling air first and not the AC condenser. You can also try increasing the surface areas of all the coolers.
     
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  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Hi

    The MK-IV is a my Ford. We use distilled water and the Rad is fine. The oil coolers are in the rear and separate. I really think the non original AC condensor is the problem as it blocks the radiator.

    The Lola had no cooling problems at at even with AC as it has an aux water radiator in the back as well as a large oil cooler in the back.

    Best
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I'm sure you'll get it all worked out.
     
  15. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
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    Centreville, Virgini
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    Gianluca Chegai
    I use Evans coolant in my 308 GTSi without any issues. It can be run with a zero pressure radiator cap but it smells bad in my opinion.
     
  16. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
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    Hilversum, Netherlands
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    I've run Evan coolant in my Subaru powered aircraft for one very short flight. Even during takeoff, the needle went off the scale on my coolant temp gauge. :eek:

    As stated by Mark (Mk E) above: the stuff a) can transfer less BTU's per gallon per F, and b) is thicker than 50/50 or plain water.

    It turned out that my cooling problems were caused by the radiators being too restrictive to coolant flow. As a result, there wasn't enough flow to get the heat away from the engine. The thicker and less heat conductive Evans made things much worse.

    moral of this story: If Evans will work for you or not can very much depend on the design of your cooling system. Front mounted radiators (on a mid-engined car) are a handicap when using Evans (the radiators on my plane are in the wing, so long tubing too).

    Rule of thumb:

    If cooling problems are caused by insufficient airflow through the radiator, then the possibility of running raised coolant temps with Evans will get you a higher temp drop between coolant and air, and thus increased cooling capacity. In this case it can work for you.

    If cooling problems are caused by insufficient coolant flow, then stay away from Evans, as it will only make things worse.

    My $ .02

    Hans
     

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